Evidence of meeting #10 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inmates.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Going back to your particular incident, can you maybe just let us know what the sanctions were, or maybe just say whether or not the sanctions, in your opinion, were sufficient in terms of dealing with what was done to you, either criminally or internally for the inmates involved in this incident? Was it at an appropriate level?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
Not in my opinion. I go home on Wednesday and the guy who did this to me will be free and clear. I will see him on the streets come Wednesday. I don't think that was fair at all. I have to deal with this knee for the rest of my life.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Do you think, when these kinds of incidents arise, that there should be a stronger look at sanctions that involve violence and clear and conscious choice in those cases, and that stricter penalties would be warranted?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I think so, yes. Every correctional officer in Whitehorse all felt like they were slapped in the face when his sentence was handed down. It was ridiculous.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Could you give us just a quick description of a profile of an inmate who would smuggle stuff in? From your experience, the inmates smuggling things in, the inmates who are selling it--do we have the big, tough, strong gang guy smuggling stuff in, or is it the sort of weak and alienated inmate doing it?
12:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It's usually the weak and alienated who are getting pressured into doing it. They are usually the ones who bring them in.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
When they're storing the drugs, hiding them in the environment, do you ever find drugs, brews, or other contraband with the tough guys? Who ends up wearing the burden of that kind of illicit property or contraband property in a correctional environment?
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
It will either be in a neutral place or it will be in the place of a weaker person who is being bullied and forced to keep it in his bed space, and he will get all the charges.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT
Okay.
And then this final question, if I still have a little bit of time, to Mr. Putnam.
In your experience at the street level, have you ever seen or had an opportunity to work with anybody or interact with a client who has made efforts—and you believed their choice to get drug free in earnest—and then got pulled back into using drugs through, let's say, no fault of their own, not slipping into addiction, but absolutely being pressured right back into it by the criminal element, for lack of a better term?
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Well, I've seen that many times. Just recently, we had a young fellow and his wife who were dealing drugs for another person. They got sick and tired of it. They quit dealing drugs, they quit doing drugs, they went cold turkey, and they were doing pretty well for about six weeks. Then one night they had a knock on their door, and the big guys are there, asking him how he's doing. He said he had quit, and they said, “Oh, congratulations, here's a little something.” They gave him some crack just to get him through the rough times. That was like leaving a chocolate bar to a five-year-old and saying “Don't touch that.” And he and his wife were back into it within a day.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Mr. Leef.
We'll stay with the government side, with Ms. Hoeppner.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
I'll continue, thank you.
Mr. Van De Mortel, can you explain a little clearer for us? After you were injured like this, attacked this violently, as were some of your colleagues, was it one inmate or were there several inmates who were charged? What were they charged with, and what was their extended sentence?
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
There were three inmates involved. Actually, one inmate was being assaulted himself, and once we had removed him from the cell, then we just had to deal with the two. I mean, the guy who broke my nose, he pled guilty, and I believe he got an 18-month sentence, with his other charges added on with that. The other guy, he is doing a federal term now, but he had a bunch of other charges as well, so it wasn't just this incident that he was charged on. I mean, what they received for this incident with me was minimal.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
And in actual time served, can you give us what their net time served would have been for just the incident they committed against you?
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
—would he also serve an additional 18 months, or would he only serve a portion of that?
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm not too sure what his story is. I think that was his total sentence, and then he would have served actually less than that. He didn't get any more charges, and he had some time taken away from him. He was supposed to be out in October, and, yes, he's out November 2 now.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Mr. Putnam, can we just go back to your experience as an investigator in Whitehorse, and the work that you did with drug criminals? Did you have any occasion to be able to interact with dealers who were bringing drugs into the prison? We're trying to get a handle on just exactly how outside drugs get into prisons, in terms of the criminal organizational aspect of it. Can you tell us a little bit? Do you have any experience with that?
12:25 p.m.
As an Individual
We have to appreciate we're talking about Whitehorse, which has a very small population. There is a criminal element, and there is somewhat of an organization to it. But I don't think there are gangs, as such, in our jail. There are bullies, who have a lot of power and influence over individual people like my son.
I don't know if it's fair to say it's well organized with the drugs coming into our jail. I think it's probably more random than anything.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
What would the motivation be, though, for these bullies? Is it to sell the drugs? Is it just to get the drugs in for their own use? Or what's their motivation? Is it to make money?