Evidence of meeting #12 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was firearm.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Dutil  Minister of Public Security, Government of Quebec
Mario Harel  Vice-President, Chief of Police, Gatineau Police Service, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Matthew Torigian  Chief of Police, Waterloo Regional Police Service, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Hélène Larente  Volunteer, Coordinator, Women's Hunting Program, Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs
Diana Cabrera  Administration Manager, Canadian Shooting Sports Association
Tony Bernardo  Executive Director, Canadian Shooting Sports Association
Wendy Cukier  President, Coalition for Gun Control
Barbara Kane  Psychiatrist, Coalition for Gun Control
Audrey Deveault  Chairperson, Dawson Student Union
Mathieu Murphy-Perron  Executive Director, Dawson Student Union
Randall Kuntz  As an Individual
Donald Weltz  As an Individual

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Mr. Kuntz--and again, I respect your concrete experience with this--a report was released today called Not to be Forgotten: Care of Vulnerable Canadians. I was part of the all-party committee that produced this report. It mentions that when you restrict the means of suicide, you restrict suicide. It gives the example of China and India, where “death by pesticide intake is a common way of committing suicide”. It states, “The development of stringent controls on access to and storage of pesticides and industrial poisons has resulted in a reduction in suicide rates...”.

Then it mentions an RCMP document and states:

Case studies have shown that firearms used in suicides tended to be readily available--the victim either owned the firearm or borrowed it. Firearms are rarely obtained specifically....Case-control studies have found that firearms were more likely to have been present in the homes of suicide victims than in the homes of suicide attempters, psychiatric inpatients, or other control subjects.

I think storage and access is very important, because—and I'm sure you can testify to this—many of the crimes committed with firearms in a conjugal violent situation involve alcohol as well. So the harder it is to get your hands on that weapon when you've had a few drinks and are mad, the more I would think it would help save lives. I appreciate your first-hand experience and what you've gone through, but I don't think this is perfect science. It's social science, and we have to give the benefit of the doubt to precaution and to saving lives.

Do you believe, Mr. Weltz, that we should get rid of the handgun registry as well? As Madam Larente said before, criminals don't register their handguns, and registration makes lawful owners feel like criminals. So if you got rid of the handgun registry, you wouldn't be missing much, because criminals would not have been in that registry anyway. What about those lawful owners of handguns? They would feel much less criminalized.

I find that there's a contradiction. Can you explain that?

1 p.m.

As an Individual

Donald Weltz

Well, I think it was brought up earlier in the other committee that handguns have been registered since 1934 in Canada. Yet how many crimes, how many murders, are being committed every year in the city of Toronto with handguns? Is the registration system working? Is it stopping crimes with handguns from taking place? I would have to say probably not.

I would say that I hadn't given it much thought until your question. But to answer the question you originally put to me, I would have to say that removing the registration of handguns probably wouldn't really make much difference, as Mr. Kuntz had said, because the strict registration part appears to not be working either.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Unfortunately, our time is up.

We thank each one of you for coming. We thank you for the submissions you've made to our committee. If some of you think or believe that you have not answered as fully as you wanted to, I would encourage you to please make another submission to our committee, and we'll see that we get it.

We are going to suspend momentarily. We have to pass a budget so we can make certain that of all our witnesses get paid for coming here.

It's going to be very quick--about two minutes.

Mr. Garrison.

1 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

I'd like to move that we conduct today's committee business in public, as there's nothing in this business that requires confidentiality. It would also allow us to raise an important public issue we have in mind, which is to invite the new Commissioner of the RCMP here to discuss his intentions with regard to accountability, and in particular, with regard to the issue of sexual assault in the RCMP.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

All right.

We don't have any standing order that says that we have to go in camera for this, but we do have to adjourn quickly.

Do you want to pass the budget?

1 p.m.

Conservative

Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB

Yes, I move that we pass it.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

All right.

We have a budget. You have a copy of the budget. I have to go to the Liaison Committee on Thursday, I think, when they meet next. Have you all had the opportunity to take a very quick look at it? It's standard. The total package is for $69,900 for the study on Bill C-19.

1 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

I second the motion.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

All we all in favour?

1 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Just a second. Since I sit on the Liaison Committee, being the chair of another committee, I just want to say that to have witnesses come for five minutes...be ready to have good arguments. I just want you to be prepared because of the speedy way that the government functions. It is kind of a bit redundant--

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

I'll take that as a fair warning.

1 p.m.

An hon. member

I had my hand up because--

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Just a moment, please. I hope that doesn't mean that I can't count on your support.

Thank you very much.

Folks, are we all in favour, then, of this budget?

(Motion agreed to)

Okay. That's carried.

On the other point that you mentioned, we can put committee business together, provide a motion of who you'd like to see—that's the manner in which we do this—and then we can deal with that at another time.

We are adjourned.