Evidence of meeting #85 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was veterans.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sandy Sweet  President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network
Captain  N) (Retired) Paul Guindon (Chief Executive Officer, Commissionaires Ottawa, Canadian Corps of Commissionaires
Colonel  Retired) Douglas Briscoe (Executive Director, National Office, Canadian Corps of Commissionaires

9:45 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

—to respond en français.

The content is a key part of our model. As I explained earlier, I don't have one subject-matter expert on staff. So we rely on the Canadian police community to supply the content and the subject-matter expert that our techies deal with to create the online course. We have a content provider agreement for every one of our courses that very clearly lays out the roles and responsibilities. They are responsible for ensuring that this content is accurate and up to date, and that it has passed the various thresholds that you're talking about, whether it's legal or standard operating procedures, the police act, whatever.

Then it has to be reviewed once a year, at a minimum. If something changes three months down the road, they will typically call us, and the beauty of online training is that you can change it on the fly. It can be up to date the next day with the new common law...whatever. So yes, it's looked at. Every one of our courses is looked at to make sure it's accurate and up to date all the time.

9:50 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Are the courses available in French and in English across the country?

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

Could you please repeat the question?

9:50 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Are all the courses available in English and French?

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

No. Right now of the 100 courses we have, I think 40 or 45

are available in French.

Anything that we have built with the federal government, obviously, has to be available in both official languages. We have a relationship with ENPQ, École nationale de police, and they actually are doing some translation for us and are our agent in the province of Quebec.

9:50 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

That's good.

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

We provide end-user support en français. So if you're a police officer in Laval and you have an issue, if you phone our help desk you will get support en français.

It has not been a huge priority for us to move as quickly as we can or maybe should have in the province of Quebec, and we're doing that now with the ENPQ. Montreal does some very interesting things online in using e-learning. We've had some relationships with La Sûreté as well.

9:50 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

A moment ago, we were talking about the updating process.

Are there different subjects that come up? Do new courses come up, for example, on subjects like different ethnicities or the different cultural communities that make up our demographic landscape? Are there courses dealing with the use of new drugs? Do you do update the content from that perspective?

9:50 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

Yes, and again, the model is that we rely on the police community to identify new topics and we ask them, can you build something on this? Diversity is huge. So we have a series of courses on diversity, from aboriginal awareness to items of religious significance.Then it's building a series of courses. Especially in large cities with the ethnic diversity we have, police officers need to understand where the various groups are coming from in order to police better. So we have a series of courses on that.

We have a series of courses on officer wellness, everything from fatigue management to healthy eating, to officer drinking and driving. It's helping them out. We have a course on preventing officer-involved collisions. So for a police officer going from point A to point B, making sure they get to point B. That's actually been one of our most successful courses, which we recently distributed to the Hong Kong Police College. We're also dealing with Australia; they're interested in that course.

That came out of the OPP having an issue around smashing cars. They just smashed too many cars; too many people were getting hurt. They wanted everybody trained on that in a short period of time, and so they came to us. We built a three-hour course, and they had 97% of their people take the course, and the following year collisions went down 25%.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thanks very much, Mr. Sweet.

Mr. Rousseau, thank you.

Mr. Payne, please. You have five minutes.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you, Chair, and my questions are through you to the witness.

Thank you for coming today. It's important information that you're providing. I was interested to learn that my chief of police, Andy McGrogan, is on your committee.

I know that there's a lot of training that goes on, and in particular the Medicine Hat Police Service will quite often take recruits from the Lethbridge community college. So I'm just curious as to what kind of interface you would have with the college. You did talk about bums in chairs versus online training, and I know that the college obviously puts these individuals through their training program at the college and there obviously must be bums in chairs. But is there some particular program that you are providing to them or they to you that is important for those individuals who are learning to become police officers?

9:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

You're talking specifically of Lethbridge College?

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Well, it could be any particular college, but certainly I know the community college in Lethbridge does provide trainees for the police force.

9:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

Yes. Actually Andy McGrogan is the new chair of our board as of last Thursday—

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Okay, I'll have to congratulate him.

9:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

—so you can pat him on the back for that, yes.

There are 16 police academies across the country and we work with each one of those to varying degrees. JIBC would use probably five or six of our courses as part of their cadet training program. Similarly, the Atlantic Police Academy uses five or six. Depot uses some of our online courses. As for Lethbridge, I'm not so sure. I just don't know how many courses they would use.

What's really working in general, whether it's in police services or academies, is a blending of technology and classroom. You don't eliminate the classroom, but if you're going to do an interviewing course in a classroom, a lot of police training academies and police services are asking their people to take the online course first. It's a two-hour course. It gives you all the basics. Then you can come in and talk about interviewing and do some role playing and that sort of thing.

So a lot of the police training academies across the country are doing that. Saskatchewan Police College is doing that as well.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

One of the other things you talked about was how your model must be evolving all the time and particularly with changes in on-the-ground policing. I'm just wondering what you're getting from the on-the-ground police officers that helps you in terms of developing programs or updating programs that you might already have.

9:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

It's interesting. The two biggest issues we're dealing with right now are around social media. It goes both ways: how do police services use social media to their advantage, and how do they intercept or understand what bad people are doing when they're using social media? And that includes all the various groups, whether it's Occupy or Idle No More, or any kind of crowd-sourcing kind of thing going on.

So they're looking for courses on that and we're looking for subject matter experts on that. What it comes down to is the whole field changes very quickly. So you have to chase that.

The other issue coming out of Boston was anti-terrorism, front-line police officer anti-terrorism. And actually we had just launched a course. The RCMP had developed it. We hosted it and made it available for free to police officers across the country, and as soon as that situation hit in Boston, we had a big uptick in people wanting to understand...you know, if you see something, say something, that sort of thing.

We try to be really responsive but we can only be as responsive as the content allows, if you will. We can't just put training out there until it has been vetted through the whole process that we use.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

In terms of a prospective instructor and educator, there are risks with online training. What are they, and how do you know that in fact police officers have actually learned what they should be learning in some of these online programs? I think it's important, obviously, that they learn it. And then secondly, is there a way that you check or that the police force can check to make sure that they have actually learned those particular skills and then can take them into the field?

9:55 a.m.

President, Canadian Police Knowledge Network

Sandy Sweet

I won't bore you with our design and development process, but it's based on sound adult learning principles. There's self-testing and testing that occurs throughout the modules. All the courses are broken up into modules. Every course has an exam. At a minimum you know that person got 85% on that exam, or it is pass-fail. There are various grading methodologies.

But that doesn't mean that they still understand things six months or 12 months out. That's the research we talked about earlier. We've had two chunks of research done to make sure that longitudinal retention was still there.

You come back to learning styles. In the classroom it's the same thing. How do you know that people understood that in a classroom six months out and 12 months out? It's part of what we have to get better at, in terms of skills retention and skills perishability. People qualify on firearms every year or two years. Should it be every six months or every 18 months? We don't know. It's just arbitrary. That's the way we've done it; that's the way we do it.

But I think we have to get better at that sort of thing. We're vigilant about it now. We don't just think that it happens. Also there's an onus of responsibility on police officers. When they take a course and they pass that course, now it's assumed that they have that skill or knowledge to go out and do their job. If something happens in an inquiry, the first question is, “Were you trained? What was the course training standard? How long ago was it?” It's a big part of what we do.

May 7th, 2013 / 10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much.

Unfortunately, our time is up today. We have our next group waiting for us.

We do sincerely thank you. This is the first briefing I've ever had on the Canadian Police Knowledge Network. We understand a little bit how new technology has changed the way that our police forces are trained. We can only imagine as technology continues to change and grow that you will be part of it as well. We thank you for the good work that you're doing.

We're going to suspend momentarily to let Mr. Sweet move out of his position. We'll ask the commissionaires if they would move up towards the table. Thank you.

We'll call this meeting back to order.

This is the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. We're continuing our study of the economics of policing in Canada.

I don't know if it was last year or a number of years ago, but the commissionaires made their rounds and did some meetings with members of Parliament. I had the pleasure to meet with them. I learned a few things then and I know other members of Parliament did as well. Members of the committee had recommended that they come and appear before us.

In this hour we're hearing from the commissionaires. Captain Paul Guindon—if I mispronounced your name, I apologize—is the chief executive officer of the Commissionaires of Ottawa. Colonel Douglas Briscoe is the executive director of the national office of the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires.

We thank you again for appearing before us and helping us with our study. Canadians know about the good work of the commissionaires all across Canada. You're a fairly high profile group that we've all seen at different public buildings around the Hill and here in Ottawa.

I invite you to make your opening statements. Tell us about what you do. We'll begin with Mr. Guindon, please.

10 a.m.

Captain N) (Retired) Paul Guindon (Chief Executive Officer, Commissionaires Ottawa, Canadian Corps of Commissionaires

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, good morning. I am very pleased to be here today.

As your chairman said, I am retired naval Captain Paul Guindon, the CEO of Commissionaires Ottawa, but I do represent the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires as the chairman of our national business management committee. With me is retired Colonel Doug Briscoe, who is the executive director.

We're still doing our rounds, by the way, Mr. President, so we haven't completed it quite yet.

The Canadian Corps of Commissionaires is a national institution at the service of Canada's veterans. Created in 1925, it is driven by its social mandate to provide meaningful employment for veterans of the military, the reserves, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Commissionaires is a uniquely Canadian solution for veterans by veterans, who lead and manage the organization. It is a fully self-supporting private organization founded on the core military values of dedication, responsibility, and mission, and fuelled by the talents and experiences of veterans. It is also a not-for-profit organization, returning about 95% of its gross revenue back to its veteran and non-veteran members while sustaining a thriving, national, self-funded private enterprise.

Commissionaires has 45 offices and a presence in 1,200 communities from coast to coast. In fact, it is the largest private sector employer of veterans in Canada. We currently have 8,000 veteran employees, and we are hiring 1,000 additional veterans per year. This is crucial because approximately 70% of all veterans do not have a government pension and are not eligible for Veterans Affairs programs. In the majority of cases, the income veterans receive through Commissionaires is their only revenue. No veteran who is seeking and can perform a job is turned away, providing them with much-needed remuneration. Because we are a not-for-profit organization, the services provided by Commissionaires to the Government of Canada are at cost.

While many of you are aware of the work we do guarding federal buildings, you are likely to be less familiar with how we have been working with police services in communities across Canada. This has now become an important area of business for us, and it is currently employing approximately 1,000 of our members. This is a line of business that has grown incrementally. While our federal guard services contract gives us a footprint across the country, where these guard service jobs are located and where veterans are located do not always match up. In some parts of the country we have lots of veterans but few federal guard service jobs. We want to develop other opportunities for our veterans. Our local offices built up this non-core policing initiative community by community, contract by contract, in an organic fashion. Most of the growth was initially in western Canada, but now all of our offices are involved in non-core policing. There is a strong fit between the skills of veterans and the needs of police services. There is a common emphasis on discipline, responsibility, and public service. Police services appreciate Commissionaires because of our ability to train and retain reliable employees who can fit in with a police structure.

We did a recent survey to identify all the alternative service activities provided to police agencies. We are performing over 60 separate functions. We have attached a list at the back of our statement. It is a very interesting list because it suggests all the functions that do not necessarily have to be provided by a sworn, uniformed police officer. And in employing Commissionaires as alternate service delivery, these police services are achieving three objectives.

The first, and most important, is to ensure their sworn officers are doing priority policing tasks and being relieved, to the extent possible, of routine, repetitive tasks. Police services want their officers to maximize their face time on the streets and in the communities.

The second objective is to contain costs in a challenging economic environment where all government agencies are being asked to do more with less.

And for Commissionaires, it is also about providing a broader range of employment that better matches the skill sets of modern-day veterans of the Canadian Forces, the RCMP, as well as other police services.

While our non-core policing business has grown in an incremental fashion, we have determined, as a national group, to put more resources and effort into this area across the country. We will be focusing on the following, as an example: detention services, arrest and release processing, prisoner monitoring and transportation, summons and subpoena services, crime scene security, bylaw enforcement, electronic ticketing, non-criminal fingerprinting and police clearances, photo radar operation, inventory and front desk management, and 911 dispatch.

We will be putting additional resources in these areas for two principal reasons: budget constraints will create more business opportunities in this area for our organization, and we have recognized the changing reality of modern veterans. No longer are our people exclusively retirees looking to supplement their pensions. The recent war in Afghanistan and the rapid turnover and early retirement of police and military members have resulted in a younger and more dynamic veteran than we have seen in decades. In some cases the level of training our veterans bring to the table is unprecedented.

Our challenge is to remain relevant to our police and military community by offering this highly skilled and typically younger group of veterans meaningful, rewarding, and financially sustainable employment. Not every veteran will want a static guard job, so we want to provide more choices, along with the opportunity for higher pay. This is also an area in which we are employing many retired veterans of police forces, which we believe is complementary with our social mandate.

We note in the committee transcripts so far that most of the discussion on policing economics has been focused on municipal police forces. You may also want to explore federal alternative services at every opportunity. The RCMP is the provincial police force in a number of provinces. We are sure there are a number of areas where the private sector could save the RCMP time and money, which in turn would allow the RCMP to stay focused on their core competencies.

Corrections Canada, for example, should also be looking at how they could use the private sector to reduce costs and increase efficiencies. We can see a number of functions that could be performed by the private sector, such as escort duties, some guarding, some parole services.

In our testimony we would like to highlight a unique program in which we support the RCMP. This is the guards and matron program, in which over 2,780 mostly part-time jobs are provided in many regions of the country. The RCMP does the recruitment and training locally, and we provide the back-office support, HR and pay services. This is an important service but particularly so in remote areas and aboriginal communities. We are proud to support the RCMP in this area.

These alternative services will continue to be a growing part of our business because it is an opportunity to create more employment opportunities for our veterans. We have included a couple of case studies with our statement, and we will certainly be pleased to answer any of your questions, monsieur le président.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson

Thank you very much.

We'll move into our first round of questioning, and we'll go to Mr. Hawn, please, for seven minutes.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I have a number of questions, some requiring short answers and some maybe a little longer.

You talked about your workforce being composed of CF veterans and RCMP, but that's not your total workforce. What percentage would fall under the veterans, police, RCMP, and what percentage would be other than?

10:10 a.m.

Capt(N) Paul Guindon

Nationally we have approximately just short of 20,000 employees, of which almost 3,000 are part time, so that is 17,000. We have 8,000 retired members from the RCMP and the military, veterans, so it would be about 40%, 45%.