Evidence of meeting #9 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prison.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
Yes, that's correct. It can be difficult.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Would you say, then, that the ability to perform strip searches of these women is something that would help in intercepting these drugs?
12:50 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
We can do strip searching, and we do strip searching, but you may be referring to body cavity searching. Is that what you're asking me about?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Yes. I'm sorry, I thought they were the same thing, but you're telling me they are two different things. Strip searching is not body cavity searching?
12:50 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
Strip searching is the removal of clothing and a visual inspection, which is something that happens on a regular basis in all prisons, and would certainly happen quite often when women are coming back from escorted temporary absences and that sort of thing.
Body cavity searches are rare. I know the commissioner appeared before you and spoke about them. These are very restricted and not something that we use very often.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Thank you very much for that clarification.
Are you aware, Madam, that we heard testimony from the Elizabeth Fry Society that they believe that a strip search, which I'm now understanding doesn't even involve a body cavity search, constituted sexual assault? Were you aware that was said? Would you agree with that? What's your view of your officers being accused of sexual assault when doing a strip search?
12:50 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
I'm aware that Ms. Pate made those comments, and I profoundly disagree with her characterization of a strip search. A strip search for all intents and purposes is done on a consensual basis in a very private and respectful way, and the women understand it's done for their own safety as well.
I actually think that's an inappropriate characterization of the activity going on, particularly given some of the experiences the women have had in terms of sexual abuse in their past. We work very hard to make sure that nothing we do here would in any way harm them any further.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Candice Bergen Conservative Portage—Lisgar, MB
Could you just reiterate for us the importance of striving towards a drug-free prison?
There sometimes seems to be this attitude that, well, it's too difficult so let's not try to aim for it. I think you made some very positive comments, and I think it's important that you reiterate them for us.
You're telling us that having a drug-free prison would also help protect women who are trying to get off drugs, and the women who are not on drugs but who would like a safe environment. Is that correct?
12:55 p.m.
Warden, Edmonton Institution for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
It makes it safer and more conducive to the work we're trying to do here, when we don't have drug abuse happening.
The really nice thing is that women tend to be very highly motivated, so they engage effectively and make a lot of changes while they're in prison. My job is to make sure I remove anything that will be an impediment to that process.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you, Ms. Hoeppner.
My question is for Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson, in the introduction I made some reference to the fact I have the pleasure of representing the riding of Crowfoot, and that Drumheller is in my riding. Consequently, I've been through that institution a number of times and have been impressed, when I have been on that tour, by the intelligence board. When I talk about the intelligence board, you know what I'm referring to. It's that board on the wall with pictures, arrows, and information.
That seems to be a security centre of sorts there. Is that basically what you're responsible for?
12:55 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
I am responsible for that board. The board is located in our briefing room for the correctional officers.
12:55 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
When I came up with this idea, I thought it would be very good to have everything displayed where officers could sit. Actually putting a face to a name goes is important; it goes a long way. I encourage the staff and the sharing of information in our department, so that the staff are active with the board. I encourage them to go up and write on them, and they do. They're very accepting of that.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
If, for example, a correctional officer overheard a conversation, or perhaps an offender gave a bit of a heads-up that there were drugs entering or coming in a certain way, what happens then? Does the correctional officer report it, or does he go down and write it on the board? Does he make a presentation? How does that work?
12:55 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
An officer would submit an observation report on it to our office.
It depends on the reliability of the information and exactly what the information is. If it's good information, we would go down and maybe put a link to the individual concerned on the board, and during our staff briefings and our institutional updates, we would advise the staff to monitor that individual closely because we believe he's involved in the institutional drug trade.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
All right.
Sometimes inmates may feel pressured by another offender to become involved in some kind of activity that isn't kosher. Does information ever comes from inmates or go directly to an officer? Would an inmate give information to an inmate committee that might pass it on? Or is that not in the cards?
12:55 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
A lot of times inmates approach correctional officers in the unit and provide them with information. That information is then relayed to our department. Inmates are very reluctant to go to the inmate committee and provide information to them.
We have, in the past, utilized the inmate committee. For example, if an inmate comes to us and says he's getting pressured to do something he doesn't want to do, we'll definitely explore the option of getting the inmate committee involved and refer that inmate to that committee, and have them sit down with him. Then they're not aware that this individual has been talking specifically with us but is just approaching them for their assistance in trying to resolve a situation.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
In our travels to a number of other penitentiaries, we didn't see such a board. This, as you've already stated, is something that you've come up with. As I mentioned earlier, you are receiving accolades down here for it because it seems to be working.
Are you aware of any other federal or provincial institution that has perhaps done the same thing?
1 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
Those charts were created through a program called the i2 Analyst's Notebook. I'm very aware that our other institutions and the analysts at regional headquarters are utilizing that same program. Different law enforcement agencies are utilizing that program. A lot of other institutions want to implement that same board in their institutions, but it's more of an infrastructure issue. There is no adequate room for it.
1 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
The next question I would like to ask, I'm almost hesitant to ask to you, not just because you're in my constituency but also because we have a great deal of confidence in all of our correctional officers. I know many of them. I've had some who have served with me politically. I know the calibre of the people, but occasionally we hear of correctional officers being involved in bringing in drugs, or maybe being pressured to bring in a drug.
Have you ever been aware of pressures on correctional officers, perhaps from the inside or from the outside? I'm not asking how many officers have lost their jobs or have suffered job repercussions because of this, but are there instances you know of where there has been pressure put on correctional officers to become involved in this type of activity?
1 p.m.
Security Intelligence Officer, Drumheller Institution, Correctional Service of Canada
I'm not directly aware of any specific incidents where they've had pressure put on them from outside the institution. As I said before, it's not that we want to admit that a correctional officer will bring in drugs, but in some cases that is reality. I definitely do not agree that 70% of the drugs entering our institutions are through our staff.
If you were referring to criminal organizations trying to intimidate a correctional officer to bring in drugs at our institution, I cannot recall a specific incident where that has occurred. Most of the time it will start by doing a small favour, maybe bringing in a little bit of tobacco. Once they do that, they're pretty much hooked. The next time they'll bring in the tobacco and a couple of pills, and it just goes from there.
1 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
All right. I want to thank both of you for joining us via the telephone today. We very much appreciate it. We've had correctional officers in; we've had the union in; and we've had the commissioner in. We've heard from a number of different penitentiaries, and it's certainly nice to hear from the Edmonton Institution for Women and the Drumheller Institution. We thank you very much.
I see that our time is up. We would perhaps also like to make a request of you. If in the next few days you consider some of the questions you have been asked and begin to think you should have answered them this way, or if there's more information you could supply us with, I would encourage you to get a hold of us, whether by writing or calling, and let us know of any further information you may have that would help us enhance this study.
I want to thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.