Evidence of meeting #35 for Public Safety and National Security in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was insite.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Matthew Skof  President, Ottawa Police Association
Michael McCormack  President, Toronto Police Association
David McKeown  Medical Officer of Health, Toronto Board of Health
Bryan Larkin  Chief of Police, Waterloo Regional Police Service, Member of the Drug Advisory Committee, Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police
Chris Grinham  Representative, Safer Ottawa
Gwendolyn Landolt  National Vice-President, REAL Women of Canada

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Would you agree that elected officials, such as city councillors or members of a provincial parliament or their government representatives, would be qualified people to consult with as to whether or not there should be a safe injection site in their neighbourhood?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

Absolutely.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

One other thing: when we were dealing with people who are required to have criminal record checks, since minor hockey assistant coaches and anyone involved in any kind of volunteer capacity in a community, especially in cities like Ottawa and Toronto, would come not only from parts of Canada, but other parts of the world, to your knowledge are most of these associations or most of these volunteers required to have criminal record checks?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

They are, absolutely yes.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Do you think that's a good idea?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

Since they are dealing with a potentially vulnerable sector of our community, then yes, I agree, they should have.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

You'd also agree that drug addicts and people like that who would be in the vicinity of a supervised drug injection site would be vulnerable people?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

I have expressed that before, and I absolutely do agree with that.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Thank you very much.

You related your length of service in Ottawa and the people who you supervise. Do you believe that every person who you supervise...?

I guess I should start from the beginning. As a representative of the Ottawa Police Association, would you have consulted with members of your organization, both civilian and uniformed, as to their opinions regarding supervised drug injection sites?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

Yes, absolutely.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Would I be correct in saying there were probably some differences of opinion?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

Yes, for sure—even from the members I supervised in the market as well.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Would I be correct in saying you would not be taking the stand you took here today if the majority did not share the opinion that you have shared with us here today?

4:10 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

That's correct.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

So you represent a democratic organization, just as the members of this committee share a democratic institution called the Parliament of Canada.

4:15 p.m.

President, Ottawa Police Association

Matthew Skof

I'm elected for a three-year term.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Thank you, sir.

Mr. McCormack, when you heard the evidence provided by your counterpart from the Ottawa police, do you as a police force regularly consult with civilians in and around the city and the neighbourhoods that you police, from the standpoint of the police organization itself—in other words, community consultations?

4:15 p.m.

President, Toronto Police Association

Michael McCormack

Yes, and in fact in every division we have in Toronto we have what we call our community police liaison committee formed of stakeholders within every community throughout the city of Toronto who we deal with on a regular basis. I was very much a big part of that in Regent Park. As I said, in Regent Park 90% of our crime, 90% of the stuff we dealt with, was either drug or alcohol related.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Given that there's no specific area that a supervised drug injection site is supposed to occur in, and that this legislation basically says the community must be consulted, in your stakeholder groups throughout the city, would I be correct in saying that those stakeholders represent a cross-section of the citizens of Toronto from, shall we say, less-educated to the very well-educated, from people who go to work with a lunch pail to people who go to work in the financial district?

4:15 p.m.

President, Toronto Police Association

Michael McCormack

Definitely. It would represent a cross-section of all society.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

And some of them may even be medical professionals.

4:15 p.m.

President, Toronto Police Association

Michael McCormack

Exactly. Yes, they would be.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Are you aware of any consultations with those stakeholder groups surrounding the supervised drug injection site issues?

4:15 p.m.

President, Toronto Police Association

Michael McCormack

I participated in the discussion at St. Michael's Hospital from a broader level, more of a 10,000-foot level, talking about the supervised or safe injection experience in Vancouver and speaking to communities from across the city about our concerns from a policing perspective, but right now, at this point, I couldn't say for sure who has been consulted or who hasn't been consulted. I have to share Matt's concerns that it has an impact on everybody in the community.

Working in these communities, where there's high recidivism of drug use and drug abuse—it creates a big problem for the community. Although the doctors' comments are from the health perspective, when they are saying they know that the anecdotal evidence is there to support the health issues, when we are looking at the research documents that indicate 90% of the clients who visit an InSite are also injecting elsewhere, I'm trying to understand the benefit analysis of what we're trying to achieve here.

Not only that, but there was a 2010 detoxification success rate of InSite of around 1.6%, so there has to be a benefit to this overall. I'm just trying to wrap my head around where that is, from what the other witness was referring to.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Daryl Kramp

Thank you, Mr. McCormack.

Now we will go to Ms. Davies for seven minutes, please.