Public Safety Committee on Feb. 17th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you very much, Mr. Head.

Certainly, yes, I've been to the Osoyoos. It's a magnificent operation there, truly a success story that we would like to see replicated across the country.

Ms. Doré Lefebvre, go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to go back to something my colleague Mr. Garrison said about the programs that suffered cuts in a prison in his riding.

There are several federal prisons in Laval. In one of them, the Federal Training Centre, many training programs were offered to male inmates. The programs included masonry, building trades, traffic control for road construction, and so on. Over the past few years, the centre was basically forced to eliminate its programs because of a lack of funding. Instructors lost more and more of their hours or were hired on contract. Was all that connected? Those trades being taught at the Federal Training Centre were very much in demand in the province of Quebec. Did this happen because there were not enough people interested in the programs or because of a lack of funding from Correctional Service Canada? What happened with those programs?

This seems to be the trend in a number of places with specific programs. This has nothing to do with CORCAN. It really affected the penitentiary.

[Don Head]

It's not related to us at all. The situation you described is not related to Correctional Service Canada.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

The Federal Training Centre is the name of the federal penitentiary. It used to have instructors hired by Correctional Service Canada who provided the training in prison. Those programs basically no longer exist in that penitentiary. It must be because of Correctional Service Canada since they are the ones covering the costs and operating inside a penitentiary.

[Don Head]

Now I understand better.

One of the challenges that we have, given the CORCAN structure, is the issue of funding. In order for us to expand or sustain less viable activities, we have to generate enough revenue through CORCAN, through the sales of the goods that we're producing. That has become more challenging and more difficult in the last number of years, given the fact that one of the places that we sell to is other governments, so their reduction in budgets means they buy less, which means we generate less revenues, which means we have to make some decisions about what kinds of activities we're able to sustain going forward to make sure that they're viable. One of the things that we've looked at, and one of the things that this committee may want to consider discussing, is whether CORCAN is given the first right of refusal for any purchases by government of the kinds of things that we produce. Right now, government departments are not obligated to come to us, for example, to buy office furniture. Our office furniture is of high quality; it meets all the standards and lasts a long time—I can do a sales pitch here if you want...a 10-year warranty. Right now, federal government departments—I'll just talk about federal government departments—are not obligated to come to us first before they buy any furniture or any other goods.

If we are able to get that kind of sustainability and a better guarantee in terms of the kinds of revenues going forward in future years, then we're able to look at other kinds of programs—expand them and sustain some of the smaller ones. Otherwise, unfortunately, we have to now make business decisions within a correctional environment.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

That is relatively understandable.

I suspect there are waiting lists for the inmates who wish to obtain a job or training with CORCAN. Am I mistaken?

[Lynn Garrow]

There's not, per se, a waiting list with CORCAN. We have openings in our shops. It differs every day. Inmates are released; inmates go off to other programs, so it's a very dynamic situation. But no, there's nobody who's not getting into a CORCAN shop because there's no availability.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

In other words, no one is on a waiting list for a job at CORCAN, neither the men nor the women. Is that correct?

[Lynn Garrow]

No, not at all.

I'll just address the FTC question. In terms of the shops at FTC, we had new shops built for us which have just come online, so part of the delay in working in the shops was that. The masonry program is still at FTC—I just saw it when I was there in early December.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Yes, but it is really limited compared to what it used to be.

[Lynn Garrow]

I'm not aware of how big it was before, but they were doing beautiful work when I was there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Thank you very much, Ms. Garrow and Madam Doré Lefebvre.

Ms. Ablonczy, please, for five minutes.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Head, in your testimony today you've mentioned several times different areas where you feel the committee could be supportive or helpful to the work that CORCAN is doing. I wonder if you could just go through some of those areas so that we can more firmly understand them and maybe pursue them.

[Don Head]

Again, starting with the issue of partnerships, I think that the committee could be helpful in engaging some of those partners that we've talked about. We've mentioned the oil and gas industry and we've mentioned construction. Food processing was just recently mentioned as well. This committee has an opportunity to engage leaders in those fields and to ask them to seriously consider turning to Corrections for creating opportunities and hiring offenders with the skills when they come out.

I also believe that the committee can be extremely helpful in the point that I just raised around giving consideration for the first right of refusal for the purchasing by federal government departments of items that we have a track record in, such as the production of furniture. We're now producing various uniforms for a couple of different government departments. Federal government departments having to look to CORCAN before they purchase outside, I think, would go a long way to supporting us.

I also believe that the committee can be helpful in terms of advancing discussions with first nations communities, issues related to economic development and the monies that they receive, and looking at forging relationships with Corrections in areas where we can provide the kind of people who are needed to produce goods. For example, in this case, it's housing. I think there's an excellent opportunity there. I also think that this committee can be extremely helpful in advancing the work that organizations such as Habitat for Humanity do. The more they're able to get projects going, the more I'm able to get offenders engaged in those kinds of projects.

Just a quick aside, we've seen several of the Habitat for Humanity projects where offenders have gone out and started to assist in putting together homes. Other volunteers from the community, including people from various construction companies, have seen the skills and the abilities of offenders. They have actually hired them right there and given them jobs for when they get released. Helping to advance those kinds of activities is good.

The other issue this committee can help advance is some discussions around the issue of a criminal record. A criminal record does not exclude you from being somebody who can become a law-abiding citizen or somebody employed in some workplace. I think this committee can be very helpful in advancing those kinds of discussions. Like you'll see when we send you this video, all those employers know who they hired, they know they have criminal records, but what they're interested in is what those offenders are bringing to that workplace. I think that you can help in advancing this discussion across the country as well.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you. That's helpful.

What use is being made of former inmates who have successfully completed this program and gone on to have successful employment in the community? Are they used as mentors or role models? If so, how is that working?

[Don Head]

We have some informal processes of mentoring and peer support, particularly for individuals who are released out into the community. They seem to be most helpful in dealing with some of the points that were raised earlier in terms of how individuals help offenders deal with some of the struggles of being back out in the community. We have seen that in a positive way. It's not as structured or as organized as it could be, but there are definite benefits for those who have left the system and gone on to become law-abiding citizens and have obtained jobs, to support other offenders coming out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Fine. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. Ablonczy.

Mr. Easter, go ahead for five minutes, sir.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If you have inventory around, Mr. Head, March 31 is coming up, so you had better get advertising. You know how government operates; on March 31, you may be able to sell some of that inventory.

You made a statement earlier, Mr. Head, that surprised me. You said that you don't actually track training and the alignment with the jobs. I think you should. I think Correctional Services Canada and CORCAN should, since “training and alignment with jobs” was one of the key reasons stated by the then parliamentary secretary to this committee when prison farms were cancelled. If you go back and look at the record, you'll see that's true. I really think that was one of the big mistakes of CORCAN and Correctional Services Canada. I was there, at the committee. I think in order to see if the systems and the training are working, there should be at least some tracking of the jobs in the field so we're dealing with real evidence.

Coming back to some of the comments Randall made earlier around funding, some of the discussion seemed to be that you had to sell a certain amount of your product. That's understandable and that makes good economic sense, but there do seem to be some concerns over funding, whether it's the correctional investigator who is explaining it or based on some of the comments you had today. Are funding levels for CORCAN and for training within Correctional Services Canada that relate to that—as I said earlier, literacy, computers, etc.—remaining the same? Can you provide those figures to us for the last five years? We do have the estimates, but they're just so-so. Can you provide those figures to the committee? Are they going up or down or staying the same?

[Don Head]

We can provide you the financial sheets for CORCAN.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's for the last five years?

[Don Head]

Yes.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

You can send them to the clerk of the committee, and we'll get them.

Second, in terms of looking at the potential training. it's easy to simplify it, because you have to work within each institution, within each region, and with the offenders who happen to end up in that institution. I understand the difficulty of that, but in relation to some of the questions from the government side earlier, is there any—I don't know what you'd call it—market force analysis of job skills shortages? Is there any communication between CORCAN, Correctional Services Canada, and Employment Canada in terms of what is needed within a specific area when you develop your training programs?

[Don Head]

Yes. Ms. Garrow will give you some details.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Could you expand on that?

[Lynn Garrow]

Absolutely. Although I referenced Stats Canada, we actually use the SDC data, and we do share it within both CORCAN and Correctional Services Canada, including with the community employment counsellors who are out in the community, so that we can position our offenders as well as possible. I would guess we've been able to make more short-term gains on the vocational strategy, because that's easier to do. That's all third party certified, and so we basically do that largely through contracting.

In terms of our actual shops and on-the-job training, as I said, we're in seven of the top 10 areas that have been identified, but we would like to keep abreast. One of the areas I have repeatedly expressed that I want to grow the business line in is construction, because it offers a lot of the different trades. It's probably the biggest bang for the buck. We're up to about $7 million of revenue in that area right now, but I believe we could do more in terms of modular construction. As the commissioner said earlier, we can do modular construction inside our institutions in some of our buildings, so we're looking for partnerships in that particular area.