Public Safety Committee on May 10th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Good morning, everyone.

Before I gavel the meeting to order, I invite everyone to stand for a moment's silence, because this is the point when our good friend Gord Brown's funeral starts. If you would, please join me for a moment of silence.

This meeting now comes to order.

As our main witness, for the third time this week—it must be because he enjoys it so much—we have Minister Goodale.

I'll let Minister Goodale introduce his colleagues.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm sure we would all want to reflect, on this particular day, upon the loss of Mr. Brown and the impact it has had on all members of the House of Commons, on all sides. I send my particular condolences to members of the Conservative Party, of which Mr. Brown was a very distinguished member.

As a side comment, I note that in recent days I've had the opportunity to talk on trade-related matters to a prominent American in the field of international trade, Mr. Robert Zoellick, who is a former U.S. trade representative and a distinguished American official in previous administrations. He observed that he had come to know Mr. Brown in Canada-U.S. relations and in fact had had the opportunity to visit with him in Gananoque, where Mr. Zoellick has some other connections. Mr. Brown left a very large footprint, and one that is much respected.

Mr. Chairman, thank you for inviting me back today.

Before I begin, I also want to take a moment to recognize all the people across this country who are affected by spring flooding in Canada, particularly in New Brunswick, but also in Kashechewan in northern Ontario and in various parts of British Columbia.

Members of the Canadian Coast Guard, the Canadian Armed Forces, the Canadian Rangers, Transport Canada, the RCMP, and others have been engaged in providing assistance. I'm sure that all members of this committee in particular would want to join me in expressing our gratitude for the hard work of all these intervenors from the federal departments and agencies, working in close collaboration with provincial and local authorities and agencies. We wish them well in the important work they're involved in. We're certainly hoping that everyone stays safe.

I'm joined today by some key people from within the public safety portfolio. You are very familiar with Malcolm Brown, the Deputy Minister of Public Safety. Brenda Lucki, the new Commissioner of the RCMP, is back with us for the second time in one week. John Ossowski is the President of the Canada Border Services Agency.

Jennifer Oades is the new Chair of the Parole Board of Canada. The board is busy this week in Ottawa, involved in training sessions for members of the board as they go about their important work across the country. We also have Anne Kelly, Interim Commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada, and Charles Lowson, Acting Deputy Director of Operations at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

I am very proud of the essential role all of these leaders and their organizations play in protecting Canadians and our rights and freedoms.

Some of these people were with me recently at the G7 meetings of foreign and security ministers in Toronto. Canada was proud to host that particular gathering, and we look forward to hosting the upcoming leaders' summit next month in Charlevoix. I am pleased to say that G7 countries stand absolutely united in dealing with the various security threats we all face, from terrorism and human trafficking to cybercrime and beyond. Canada also took the opportunity to promote gender equality and women's rights at those meetings in Toronto. Gender equality and security absolutely go hand in hand. That's a top priority for our G7 presidency, and an overarching theme for all G7 discussions in the meetings we are hosting this year.

Mr. Chair, the skilled women and men of the public safety portfolio ensure that we are all well placed to respond to evolving threats. Our parliamentary responsibility is making sure they have the resources to do so. That, of course, brings me to the topic of this meeting, which is the main estimates for 2018-19.

Portfolio-wide, the total authority sought here will result in a net increase of $857.2 million. That is 9.8% more than in the main estimates last year. I'll touch briefly on just a few of the highlights.

First, speaking about the G7, these estimates include $233.5 million for G7 security across the public safety portfolio. Last time I was here to discuss the estimates, I mentioned that we would be glad to provide security briefings about the G7 to Mr. Paul-Hus and Mr. Dubé. I understand those briefings have happened.

Work is well under way in coordination with provincial and municipal authorities to ensure that everyone in Charlevoix and the surrounding areas is safe and secure. I am also aware that there will likely be people engaging in demonstrations during the G7. Our government will always defend the democratic rights of Canadians to demonstrate and protest, provided that it happens peacefully and within the bounds of the law.

Canadians also expect police officers to maintain public safety while respecting the law and professional codes of conduct. To that end, I would welcome the expected observers from Amnesty International and the Ligue des droits et libertés.

The main estimates also include an increase of $48.6 million for CBSA. That funding will go to immigration and security screening, border processing, and inland enforcement. This is part of our commitment to ensure that the border remains secure while open to the expeditious flow of legitimate trade and travel.

Border Services officers are professionals who do a difficult job, prioritizing security while treating people with humanity and compassion. I thank them and members of the RCMP for being so adept at handling what has recently been a very challenging border situation. It is, in large part, thanks to the RCMP and CBSA, as well as their colleagues in IRCC, that public safety is being maintained, that Canadian law is being applied, and that our international obligations are being upheld.

The estimates also include $41.1 million in increased funding for the first nations policing program. This is part of the investment we announced in January of almost $300 million over five years, which is the largest increase in funding for the first nations policing program since its inception almost 30 years ago.

I am pleased to report that of the 42 agreements with first nations that have been due for renewal, 29 are either signed or in the very final stages of completion, and officials are working very hard at the remainder.

There's also an increase of $18.9 million in funding for the correctional service, and another $1.3 million for Public Safety Canada, to manage vulnerable offenders appropriately and effectively within our corrections system. That refers particularly to people with mental illness, as well as indigenous offenders and women. We know that our correctional system needs to be world-class, at both security and rehabilitation, because that is the best way of reducing recidivism and keeping communities safe.

There is an increase of $20 million for the national disaster mitigation program, to increase resilience so natural disasters don't cause as much damage as they might otherwise.

There is $19.1 million to build capacity to address drug-impaired driving, which includes officer training. There is $23.4 million for the memorial grant program. This is a new program that will provide $300,000 to the families of police officers, firefighters, and paramedics who have died as a direct result of their duties. This program is effective as of this past April 1.

Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness is, as you know, a very large portfolio. I am aware that your committee has had a full plate recently, too, studying the correction system as well as national security legislation, and you've now begun studying Bill C-71, related to firearms.

I cannot promise that the pace is going to slow down. In all likelihood, it will go in the opposite direction and get faster. I can promise, however, that our government will continue to prioritize public safety while at the same ensuring that Canadian rights and freedoms are well protected. It is the men and women at this table who represent the leadership of the public safety portfolio, and everyone they represent, who make such a huge contribution every day and work so hard to make sure that Canadians are safe and that their rights and freedoms are protected.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister.

I just remind colleagues that time stands still for no one, and we have a clock.

That said, we have Mr. Spengemann for seven minutes.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to start by echoing and expressing my own appreciation for the opening sentiments in memory of our colleague Gordon Brown, particularly as his funeral is taking place at the very moment when this committee is gathered.

Minister Goodale, it's good to have you back with your senior team. I'd like to start by asking you to elaborate on the status of CBSA's contingency planning. In the main estimates, is there specific funding and are there resources being allocated to manage the flow of irregular migration at our borders? Could you update the committee on what other measures, if any, are being taken to address this situation at the moment?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

CBSA is front and centre in coping with the unusual situations that have existed at the border. In response to them, CBSA made a number of internal resource reallocations last year, but in budget 2018 a specific pool of funds was set aside for CBSA, IRCC, the RCMP, and others to make sure the capacity was there to deal with the border situation as it might evolve this year.

Mr. Ossowski is with me, and he has the greatest direct perspective on the resources that are becoming available and what those resources would be used for. I would ask John to comment on this.

[John Ossowski, President, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you, Minister.

As the minister mentioned, the budget proposed $72 million for CBSA over two years—about $49.6 million for this fiscal year, I believe, and the balance for next fiscal year. That's basically to allow us to look at the lessons learned from last year and do proper contingency planning for a surge that may happen.

We've done a lot of on-the-ground work with the RCMP and with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to make sure that we have the right facilities and the right processes in place to manage the flows as they approach us.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Ossowski, what is your assessment of the current situation on the ground?

[John Ossowski]

We're getting around 70 to 80 people a day, so it's very manageable. I had about 169 people on site last night who were working their way through the process. I would say it's very manageable right now.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you for that.

Minister Goodale, the memorial grant program that you briefly addressed in your opening remarks is one that is certainly very much appreciated by the community of first responders in my riding, Mississauga—Lakeshore. Could you take a moment to go a bit further into the details of the way the program is structured and how families would apply for it? Also, with respect to the money allocated in the mains, how is the division of funds thought through as to what is available for grants and what is for administration of that program?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

On the latter point, about the division of resources between administration and actual grant funding, I'd ask Mr. Brown to comment.

The point is simply this, Mr. Spengemann. We call upon the tri-services, as they're referred to—fire, police, and paramedics—to do extraordinary things. This memorial grant is something that the three services have been arguing for, probably for 20 to 25 years, as they come to the Hill every year to make their representations to government and to members of Parliament.

The House of Commons passed a motion on this topic about five years ago, one that crossed all party lines, expressing support for the principle. When I became the minister two and a half years ago, I was determined to get this into law so that, at whatever level a firefighter or a police officer or a paramedic is functioning, whether municipal, provincial, or federal, if the worst should happen and they should lose their lives in the course of performing their duties, the Government of Canada would, through this program, provide a tax-free payment of $300,000 to their families to acknowledge their service and to help, to the extent that money can help, in the difficult transition to the loss of a loved one.

We are in the process of public competition for an administrator of the program, an outside firm that has expertise in dealing with programs of this kind. This administrator would provide the liaison with the first responder community, providing information, setting up a website to assist them with information to handle the initial influx of applications, and so forth.

Hopefully we will not have many applications, but sadly we will have a flow. We've budgeted the funding on the basis of an actuarial analysis of what we might likely expect and on past experience. The effective date is April 1, so any deaths that occur after that date will be covered by the program. The administrator will handle the initial contact with the families, but it will be the Department of Public Safety that makes the final call with respect to eligibility for the program.

We want this to be smooth, generous, and compassionate, because that's what it's intended for: to assist those who have suffered the terrible loss of a loved one who has lost his or her life in the line of duty.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, Mr. Spengemann's time has expired.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have seven minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for your kind words about my colleague Gord Brown. That is very kind.

Today we learned from a briefing of the Criminal Intelligence Service Canada that the infamous street gang known as MS-13 intends to take advantage of the situation created at the border by our government and Justin Trudeau's irresponsible Tweet in January 2017. The members of this gang want to create cells in Montreal and Vancouver and increase their presence in Toronto. As you know, this is a gang whose criminal activity involves human trafficking and sexual slavery for prostitution purposes.

Before MS-13 criminal gangs begin to terrorize Canadian communities, will you finally take steps to protect our borders and solve the issue resulting from the Safe Third Country Agreement between Canada and the United States?

That is my first question.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Paul-Hus, obviously the activities of human traffickers or human smugglers are of grave concern to the government, regardless of its political persuasion, and I'm sure to all members of Parliament. Over the course of the last several budgets, we have set aside new funds that are specifically aimed at all forms of gender-based violence, including smuggling and trafficking.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I understand, Minister but I would like us to talk about the current situation at the border. We are talking about budgets here. There is a $48 million increase in CBSA expenditures. That is good, but we have to take developments at the border into account. Canadians are used to seeing women and children crossing the border on television; however, the situation is different now. We've had this information for a long time and today we heard it officially; there are really dangerous criminal gangs that want to enter Canada.

Does your government intend to take steps to modify the Safe Third Country Agreement between Canada and the U.S.?

If not, will funds be included in the budgets, or will measures be taken to allow us, once criminals have been identified, to arrest and incarcerate them and keep them in prison?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

That's exactly what happens, Mr. Paul-Hus. As I've said many times in the House of Commons, whenever someone comes across the border in a fashion that is circumventing the normal port of entry, when they come across the border in that irregular way, they are immediately arrested. In the first instance, they are arrested by the RCMP, and at a later stage, they're transferred to the jurisdiction of the CBSA. They are identified, according to biographic and biometric information, and all of that is checked against our own Canadian databases and American databases for everything that deals with criminality, an immigration problem, or a security issue, so that if a criminal is identified in that process, they are turned over to the police for the normal processing of criminal behaviour.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You know, as I do, that often these people arrive without papers precisely to avoid being identified. If there is no information in the U.S. data base, there is no way of identifying them. In that situation, do immigration rules force us to release them?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. Paul-Hus, if there is any doubt about their identity, any question about criminality, any issue related to a risk to the public, or any doubt that they might not present themselves in the normal course for subsequent proceedings, they can be, and they are, detained. If officials at the border, which includes the RCMP in the first instance and CBSA and IRCC later on, feel there is any doubt about any of those matters, they are detained to ensure public safety.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That is our hope.

I have a second question, Minister.

For several weeks, when we ask questions during question period, we've been attacked by you or your minister colleagues who reply that the Conservatives reduced the budget of the CBSA by $300 million over the past years.

I have here a document from the Library of Parliament that says precisely the opposite: from 2012 to 2015, the Conservatives increased the budget by $300 million, and your government has decreased it since 2015, except for this year when it increased it.

Can you confirm that it is wrong to say that Conservatives reduced this budget by $300 million, and that the opposite is true? I have the document here.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I am more than happy to discuss those numbers with you, Mr. Paul-Hus, because there is the departmental performance report for CBSA for the year 2014-15. We all recall who was in government in 2014-15, when the government of the day was making very proud statements about how they were cutting the budget for CBSA by $148 million, and that the cuts would continue in 2015-16 and 2017-18. That's the departmental performance report of CBSA, as filed in Parliament.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

It will...

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I would note that, in addition to the funding that's referred to in these estimates, there has been additional funding—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Fine. It will be my...

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

—approved for CBSA, for a broad variety of initiatives, to make sure that we're backfilling the losses that the agency sadly incurred under the previous administration.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Minister. I have to move quickly because the chair is keeping us to our allotted time. However, it will be my pleasure to give you the document. You will be able to see that we did our homework.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

So have we, Mr. Paul-Hus. So have we.