Public Safety Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2018

[Scott Reid]

One could obtain that report. I see a report was made of it, and if we asked, it might be possible to get the answer. You can see why that's an important technical issue to have available. If the RCMP does as we've asked, for example, it would be helpful to make sure that they are aware of the nature of the problem that might arise.

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

Yes.

[Scott Reid]

Okay, thank you. That's very helpful.

I'm a huge advocate of defibrillators. I didn't want to give the impression I'm not. On the contrary, I simply wanted to deal with an issue that is a practical one about implementation, and you have the expertise.

You mentioned costs associated with pad replacement, about $75. Is that annual for the Ottawa Police, or how often would it be?

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

There's an expiration date. Right now the new ones that we receive are good until 2022, so four years.

[Scott Reid]

It's a four-year life, okay.

The battery is replaced every three years, but you do periodic checks to make sure the batteries are okay. They, too, are being frozen and thawed, frozen and thawed. Are you checking on those?

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

Yes. At the start of every shift, the officer will open the Pelican case where the unit is stored, and they'll make sure that a check mark and the expiry date are on the pads.

[Scott Reid]

To the extent of your knowledge, has there ever been an issue with cold weather affecting the performance of the batteries on the defibrillators with the Ottawa Police Service?

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

No, none have been reported to us.

[Scott Reid]

Thank you. That's obviously very helpful.

Like the RCMP, you face doing this in very hot weather and also in very cold weather.

As for training costs, I think I'm right in saying that, in the police force, part of becoming a police officer.... If you're driving in a cruiser, you are already CPR trained and you're AED trained. That's just a matter of course. Is that correct?

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

Exactly. Every year, we have our annual recertification of CPR, first aid and AED as well.

[Scott Reid]

Is that unique to the Ottawa Police Services, or is that a standard thing across police forces, to the best of your knowledge?

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

I'm not sure. I would say it's probably standard across the province.

[Scott Reid]

That's my impression, too. That's relevant to some of the police forces that don't yet have the units because, of course, training costs. If they're zero, that's a relevant consideration. It's already built in.

I want to ask about trunk space. In the presentation they're going to give, the RCMP representatives note issues with trunk space. I'm guessing that the cruisers you use are, in terms of trunk space, kind of similar to the ones that the RCMP uses. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll just ask the question. Do you have adequate trunk space for the defibrillators, or are there circumstances where that can be a problem for you?

[Cst Bruno Gendron]

We haven't encountered that problem here in Ottawa. Even our tactical unit carry defibrillators, and they carry more equipment than a patrol unit, and there have never been any issues with space for the Pelican case when we carry the AED.

[Scott Reid]

Okay, thank you.

I had a similar experience. The Ontario Provincial Police have argued over the years that a lack of trunk space was an issue that prevented them from carrying defibrillators. I got so frustrated by this. On one occasion, I was at an event. It was a festival in Frontenac County and the cops were out. They had their trunk opened, and I noticed there was a ton of trunk space there, so I took out my camera phone and proceeded to film their trunk as evidence that there's room in OPP cruiser trunks. The cop on duty looked at me a little suspiciously, but I'm a well-known figure in the constituency, so I think he decided I wasn't a security threat.

I say this by way of saying that my impression is that this argument that comes up from time to time is a red herring. I don't want to put words in anybody else's mouth, but that's my impression.

I'll turn to the folks at St. John. In addition to police forces, where I think it's essential that there be defibrillators put into the trunks of cruisers, which other first responders or similar types of public services don't have them now that ought to have them? Where is the logical focus?

[Shawn McLaren]

I can't speak to who does and who does not have them with any great knowledge, but if I'm in a theoretical mind frame, I would say it goes for any type of special constable first responders, those being police force, fire services and obviously paramedics. If you think about it, OC Transpo special constables would be an example of someone who should have them. As light rail gets going, we do the first aid training for the special constables for OC Transpo.

[Scott Reid]

I have to wrap this up in just a second. I have 23 seconds left.

Quickly, in Toronto, there are defibrillators on many subway platforms. Will they be on the platforms for the new Ottawa transit stations? Do you know?

[Shawn McLaren]

I do not know.

[Scott Reid]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That closes the lid on that questioning.

Mr. Dubé, please, you have seven minutes.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to everyone for being here. I greatly appreciate it.

My question is for the witnesses from Urgence Bois-Francs. You talked a little about the area you cover. Does the SQ share its policing duties with a municipal police force?

[Jocelyn Grondin]

The SQ is responsible for the entire area.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

All right. To your knowledge, are there places where the vehicles of the SQ or a municipal police force are not equipped with a defibrillator?

Can this cause problems for paramedics working in an area with two different police forces and that do not know who will arrive at the scene first?

[Jocelyn Grondin]

I would say no because our paramedics are always prepared for the worst case scenario when they deploy to a scene. They are not overconfident and do not tell themselves that they can take things a little easier because an SQ officer is already there. They are always prepared for the worst case. For example, they are prepared in case the AED did not work properly or the police did not have an AED. Naturally, we are pleased when the SQ arrives before we do, but we never count on it.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

That clarification is important and the people from St. John Ambulance can also answer the question.

The actions of the paramedic services are not at all affected by the equipment carried by the police.