Evidence of meeting #128 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Right, but the emergency response team has a specific AED for their needs, not generally for patrol cars.
What happened to the ones that you purchased for the G7? Have you deployed them anywhere?
October 2nd, 2018 / 4:50 p.m.
Nathalie Guilbault Director, Materiel and Moveable Assets Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
We haven't quite completed the G7 after action that's required. Therefore, we will be seeing what is required internally to the RCMP. We will be redistributing those from the G7 within the department or within other government agencies.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
It would be feasible to say that this price range is exactly the price range you can get a volume discount for AEDs that are used in law enforcement vehicles across this country.
Would it be reasonable to suspect or hope that whatever you purchased for the G7 would go into some of your marked cruisers or into areas that would benefit from having an AED in a car, as your officers are AED trained anyway?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Materiel and Moveable Assets Program, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I can only speak to the model I saw. It was one of the potential buys for the G7. It was just in a brochure. I can speak to that.
The ones that we would need in the cars would be in the ruggedized Pelican cases, like Ottawa Police were speaking about. These were more of these mobile-type systems that you saw.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Right. Again, that's exactly what's in the cars with the Pelican case that are $1,700.
You indicated, Superintendent, that you have not done a cost-benefit analysis to roll this out. This motion has basically been on the books since March last year. I'm wondering why that cost-benefit hasn't been done. I'm just curious.
Pam, did you say about $8.5 million for the cost?
The Omar Khadr payout was $10.5 million. The hockey rink on the Hill was $8 million. You'd almost be covered off with the hockey rink.
When you look at the 3,000-plus lives that it's estimated to save, that you could be involved in saving, you see that we're talking about $2,800 a life. It's a pretty small price to pay especially when you can get four years or so out of an AED without....
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
The pads have a four-year life. You can do minor maintenance on them. I think that would help, as your officers are already CPR trained. Included with the CPR training, you have AED training.
4:50 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
That is correct.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Then there's not a lot of rollout. As you know, the training of officers is usually the highest costs of any implementation of new equipment.
I'm just curious whether the RCMP will be undertaking a cost-benefit analysis in response to this study.
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
I think that we require further consultation with the provinces, the municipalities and the territories to examine the issue and determine exact costs. When we speak of priorities, where does that fit on the priority list? We'll move forward in that way.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Fair enough.
You indicated early on that you are committed to your communities and you want to enhance your public safety role as first responders.
Now, you have 150-plus municipalities that you provide policing to. As we heard in the first round, and you and your team were here earlier, we all know that with AED response, unless you have immediate response, sometimes you can't change the course of what's happening. In many municipalities you are there. I know in my municipality the RCMP are in that community and will be responding long before the paramedics, EMS, or fire services will arrive. It would be critical. In fact, many of those communities are asking and supportive of this. I think it would fit with your mandate and it would be a priority to fall in line with what you wish to accomplish as part of your contract policing for those communities.
Would you not agree with that?
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
Mr. Chair, I don't think it's my position to oppose or support. I'm here to provide the information as requested.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Fair enough.
Have you looked at what the OPP or the Sûreté in Quebec are doing? Do they have them in their cars?
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
Yes. I know we've had consultations and we've been in contact, particularly with Ottawa city police to examine how their system works.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Because a lot of your policing jurisdiction is rural, I was looking to see what you might learn from the OPP and the Quebec provincial police on their use, whether they have them in their cars and whether there's something that you could gather from that research that would help you out in deciding how to prioritize what cars to put them in.
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
That could be very viable, yes.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
If I understand your comments correctly, equipping the vehicles with defibrillators will not involve any additional cost or requirement for training the officers.
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
There's no additional cost to train.
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
That is correct.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
You said that the devices that you already have are for short duration events. There might be room for reevaluation if these devices are going to be used on a more permanent basis, if I can put it that way.
In terms of what is being proposed here, do the limitations of the short duration devices mean that the RCMP cannot use them or buy the same models?
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
There are challenges in regard to the weather and the climate as was specified earlier—extreme heat through the Okanagan with the vehicles closed, and in the north, the temperature. I'm not technically savvy on the specifications, but I do know that there is a temperature range and that does pose a challenge. Having the device is one thing. Making sure that the device is in working order and that it is going to work when it's required is very important as well.
It's not just having it. It's the maintenance of it. It's having the officers do checks of all their equipment when they get in their vehicles at the beginning of their shift, ensuring that it is an operational piece, that it's there and it's going to be useful when they need it.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
So the concern is that the devices purchased in the G7 or the G8, for example, are not suitable for the requirements or the climate?
4:55 p.m.
Supt Jamie Solesme
I'm not certain what the specifications were on the devices purchased. It's important for the committee to understand that there are challenges, when we have a national police force, that we need to examine and take into consideration with respect to procuring a proper device and ensuring that it is sustainable and that it works in whatever environment.
It's very important that we are able to provide that same level of protection to all our citizens. We don't want to have a machine that works in one area and doesn't work in another. It could lead to the procurement of several different types if the specifications led to that. It's about having the most useful tool that we could have.
