Public Safety Committee on Dec. 6th, 2018

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I just wanted to fill it out because we focused on a few, but in fact there are many different facets of a person's life that can be impacted, so I would look at them.

We talked about proposed solutions and there seemed to be general agreement on taking the Parole Board out of it. What would that look like? I'm only asking because we've all been looking with some surprise at this long, 10-point process. If we took the Parole Board out of it, would some of these steps get removed? How would that look to you?

Can we start with Ms. Latimer? I know you touched upon it a bit in this report as well.

[Catherine Latimer]

Yes. If you looked at the way criminal records are dealt with in the youth justice system, you could see how it would look without the involvement of the Parole Board. That's a complete system that tells you who has access to it and when information can be disclosed, but basically it requires the RCMP to seal the records automatically when there have been no subsequent convictions after a crime-free period. There is a model you could take a look at, which is already operative. The RCMP is implementing it now. That might be a good first step.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Would you two be in agreement with trying to follow the model for the Youth Criminal Justice Act?

[Louise Lafond]

Yes.

[Rodney Small]

Agreed.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Great.

I know I only have one minute. The other thing was just that everyone has touched briefly on these agencies that you find out about.

Mr. Small, you mentioned that you had considered getting a lawyer or hiring an agency. Did you, and if you didn't, why did you not?

[Rodney Small]

When I went to do my research, I realized that basically all these organizations were looking to exploit people in my situation, really around their language, and that wasn't what I was looking for. I needed support. I needed genuine support, not just somebody looking to make money off my situation. Right away, I felt that the only person who was going to represent me properly was going to be me. I had to learn how to go through each one of those 10 steps and ask questions when necessary.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Fair enough. It also looks like we could use some SEO operations to try to change the Google searches on that one.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Pierre Paul-Hus]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

Mr. Motz, you have three minutes.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'm going to be short for time again, am I, Mr. Chair?

I just have a couple of quick questions.

Mr. Small, you indicated that you had some struggles, and you ladies did as well. There are some individuals who apply for a pardon who might struggle with it, but I'm led to believe that in communities across the country, there are government-funded programs, like the eager and able to learn program, which will help individuals complete documents and forms. This is one of them. I've heard they do.

Is that not readily available? Mr. Small, you've never heard of it. Today is the first time you've heard of it. Those programs do exist.

I just want to get back to the other point. Ms. Dabrusin commented that before we used the word “pardon” and now we use the words “record suspension”. They don't mean anything different. That's the reality we're in, unfortunately. I have to disagree with the suggestion that the RCMP might be better able to manage a record suspension or pardon. In reality, as we heard from the Parole Board gentleman when he was here before, the record is removed from view. It is not removed.

[Louise Lafond]

That's right.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Whether it's a young offender record or whether it's an adult record, it's still there.

I applaud you, Mr. Small, for the process you went through to get a record suspension. I personally like the idea of a pardon. It has a different connotation to it. It means more to the individuals who experience it and have to go through that.

In the time I have left, if you had a choice.... I know we heard your suggestion that the RCMP should be doing this. I think their resources are stretched far enough in doing this, but that's a different story.

Mr. Small, from your perspective, say you were to do one or two things to fix this. I don't know if you had a chance to read the motion proposed by Mr. Long on why we're here and why we're studying this particular idea. If you were to say, “We could do this, this and this to make this process work for the public safety side and to ensure that those who deserve to get a suspension get a suspension”, what comes to mind right off the top for you?

[Rodney Small]

I really like the idea of the automatic, after you serve that time and you've been basically crime free for that certain amount of time.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

In your opinion, would it matter what type of offence is committed? I asked one of the other witnesses in the last hour if we should provide a different scale for summary conviction types of offences—because there are lots of them—and indictable offences. Should it be automatic that you get a suspension if your time is up, no matter what the offence is?

[Rodney Small]

In regard to the timing, I agree with my friend Catherine here. She said the difference between a summary and an indictable offence.... I think the time frame should be a little different in order to reflect the crime, no question about it. But at the end of the day, I think getting a letter in the mail to show that you've been recognized for being crime free says a whole lot not only about our country but also about our charter rights as Canadian citizens.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Pierre Paul-Hus]

Thank you very much.

Congratulations, Mr. Motz, that was very fast! I like quick questions that can be asked in two and a half minutes.

Thank you very much for your appearance here at committee.

I must thank the committee members for their great discipline today. I will pass my congratulation to our chair, Mr. McKay.

The meeting is adjourned.