Evidence of meeting #150 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was safe.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gilles Michaud  Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Ruby Sahota  Brampton North, Lib.
Malcolm Brown  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Jim Eglinski  Yellowhead, CPC
David Vigneault  Director, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Jennifer Oades  Chairperson, Parole Board of Canada
Bill Blair  Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction
Tina Namiesniowski  Executive Vice-President, Canada Border Services Agency

4:30 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

On behalf of the committee, I want to thank you and your officials for your appearance.

With that, we'll suspend while we re-empanel.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

I see a quorum. I see that Minister Blair has joined us, and I see that the rest of the officials haven't left.

With that, I'll ask Minister Blair for his opening statement.

February 25th, 2019 / 4:35 p.m.

Bill Blair Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Given that Minister Goodale earlier today provided an overview on behalf of the portfolio, I'd like to take the opportunity to focus on some of the work I have been undertaking as the Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction with various partners since the last time I had the opportunity and privilege of appearing before this committee.

I appreciate that the agency and department heads have stayed on for another hour to help with any questions that you may have. I take great comfort in being surrounded by their expertise.

As you know, my mandate as minister is to ensure that our borders remain secure and to lead efforts to reduce the impact of organized crime. These issues do not rest in any one department, so ensuring that strong links exist between so many departments and agencies is critical both within and outside the Public Safety portfolio. The latter has provided extraordinary support on issues ranging from border security to drug-impaired driving and tackling gun violence.

Health Canada and Justice Canada have also been key to our success in the legalization and strict regulation of cannabis, helping to reinforce new impaired driving laws, which we announced very recently, and advocating for responsible cannabis use.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, along with Global Affairs Canada, have also undertaken critical work on irregular migration and on discussing the safe third country agreement with the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Transport Canada and Global Affairs have also helped to look at opportunities for pre-clearance for Canadians travelling to the United States.

I have been reaching out to provincial, territorial and municipal colleagues, stakeholders and other partners, including chiefs of police, on a wide range of issues under my mandate, including addressing gun violence. I've had the chance to discuss that issue at a recent meeting of federal, provincial and territorial ministers as well. Over the last few months, engagement activities on reducing gun and gang violence, including in-person round table sessions across Canada and an online questionnaire have taken place. I will have more to report on that important work in the near future.

I have also met with our American colleagues in Washington, D.C., to continue co-operative efforts to keep our borders safe while also protecting citizens from crime and the dangers of illegal substances.

Mr. Chair, while we face many challenges in the realm of public safety and security, I have full faith in each and every one of our departments and agencies and in their leadership to build on the progress we have already made together. The people working in these departments are extremely dedicated, hard-working individuals, and I want to take the opportunity to commend them for the work they do each and every day to keep Canadians safe.

Minister Goodale has already highlighted for you in his remarks some of the work that is taking place. As he noted, the estimates are an important tool to make sure that funds are flowing where they need to flow. He highlighted that in supplementary estimates (B), the Public Safety portfolio as a whole is requesting total authorities that would result in a net increase of $24.3 million over authorities to date. This constitutes a 0.2% increase.

With respect to the interim estimates, I'll note that most of the portfolio has similar funding levels to 2018-19. I'd like to focus on a few specific items, which are, as I've said, specific to my mandate.

One of my key commitments is to make sure that we're investing in keeping Canada's borders open to the free flow of legitimate trade and travel while promoting the protection and safety of Canadians. The supplementary estimates highlight transfers to other organizations for services provided to them. I raise this because it highlights how closely the CBSA works with partners to keep our borders safe and efficient. For example, Shared Services Canada provides key information technology services. The RCMP provides law enforcement record checks, and the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development provides support to CBSA officers who are located at missions abroad.

Protecting our borders is truly a collaborative undertaking across all levels of government and across many departments. It's mission-critical that we manage it effectively while also ensuring the national and economic security of Canada and the United States writ large, which in turn can have a global impact. This is central to my mandate and will remain a key focus for me as we move forward.

On that, I'm pleased to report that progress is being made on a number of files, including pre-clearance systems. Pre-clearance means that travellers can complete necessary customs and immigration procedures before they leave, instead of after they arrive. As you know, Canada and the U.S. recently negotiated an expansion of pre-clearance, thanks in no small part to this committee's careful review of the legislation that allowed it. The goal is to cover more airports and other modes of transportation and to allow for traffic moving south to north. Both countries have now passed the necessary legislation for that to move forward, and work is currently under way on expansion to new locations and to look for opportunities like cargo pre-clearance.

On the security front, I'll note that I'm also fortunate to have forged a very solid working relationship with the departments of Homeland Security and Justice, and other U.S. agencies that help us meet the demands of a complex and evolving security landscape. That relationship is critical to protecting Canadians every day, supporting our efforts to counter guns, gangs and opioid distribution—things that are all central to my mandate.

Mr. Chair, these are merely a few examples of the important work that is happening across the Public Safety portfolio and beyond to the work of many departments supporting my mandate. I want to thank the members of this committee for their consideration of these estimates and for all their important ongoing work.

Mr. Chair, thank you, and I look forward to the questions of the committee.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Minister Blair.

Colleagues, it's my intention to call for the vote on the supplementary estimates, and the other estimates as well, immediately prior to when we usually end the meeting. I am anticipating that this will be routine and we will take very little time to do it, so I'm going to let questions run right up to the end of the time that's allotted.

With that, we'll ask Ms. Damoff to begin, for seven minutes.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Thanks, Chair.

Thanks, Minister Blair, for being with us again. It's always nice to have you here to answer our questions.

Minister, one of the things you've been doing is having consultations around handguns and assault weapons. I've been following the testimony at the Senate committee, and in particular the information that the Canadian Doctors for Protection from Guns have been talking about, as well as Dr. Alan Drummond, who has appeared before our committee a number of times. They have said that we need to be looking at firearms from a public health perspective.

Something I've brought up here at committee a number of times is not just the implication of guns in gangs and criminal activities, but also their prevalence in suicides: 75% to 80% of gun deaths are suicides. Also, in terms of intimate partner violence, 26% of deaths in Ontario involved a firearm. There are a number of other peer-reviewed studies of rural areas that point to firearms being implicated in intimate partner violence. I spoke to the director of the YWCA in Lethbridge, Alberta, and asked her in how many cases firearms were implicated in women coming to the shelter, and she said it was in all of them.

In your consultations, I'm wondering whether this has been a factor that you've been considering and whether it has come up at all, because it really is a part of the conversation that seems to get lost in all the rhetoric.

4:45 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

Yes, Ms. Damoff, let me assure you that this is certainly a consideration that has been well canvassed in my examination of this issue as part of my mandate. We have a Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee, which I meet with regularly. There is an emergency room physician in that group who provides that perspective. The group that testified before the Senate, the trauma and emergency room physicians who spoke, I have met with them as a group as well.

I think it's very important for us to have that perspective. In my experience, applying a public health lens where we look at all the harms, both social and health, related to the issue of firearm violence in our communities, can be very helpful in ensuring that we do take measures that will actually be effective in keeping people safe, to reduce the incidence of fear. I believe that, at my last committee appearance here, we spoke about how prevalent fear is in intimate partner relationships where there's a firearm present, for example, and the impact it can have on individuals who are suffering from depression or other forms of illness that could cause them to be a risk to themselves or to others.

The public health lens is a very effective way in which that can be done, and certainly in our consultations that has been well articulated by witnesses who have come before me.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Thank you, Minister.

Something else that has attracted a lot of rhetoric is the issue of asylum seekers coming across the border. I have a question regarding investments in that, but first I have two questions, if you can just give me really quick answers.

Are we welcoming terrorists and criminals into Canada?

4:45 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

Absolutely not.

Frankly, I will tell you that in my very strong opinion, this is not in any way a security or safety issue. I know the incredible work done by our officials at CBSA, the RCMP and IRCC to ensure that there are very rigorous security background checks for everyone who enters the country, regardless of how they do it. I think the work they do.... Some 95 million people are processed and screened before they come in, but those who are coming in irregularly at our borders are detained. They are subject to very rigorous background checks—biometrics are taken, photographs and fingerprints.

All of the things that are necessary to maintain the safety and security of our country are being done by our officials.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Can Canadians feel safe? Are they safe, Minister?

4:45 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

Yes, they really are.

I think it's also important to reflect on who is coming across that border. Overwhelmingly, they're families, and 40% of the people coming across are children. They represent no risk to anyone. Many of them are seeking asylum, seeking the protection of this country and fleeing persecution.

We also have rigorous systems in place. They are entitled to due process, but it's also to ensure that they are in fact eligible for our country's protection. If it is determined that they are not following that due process, they're also subject to removal.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Minister, I was reading an article about seizure of firearms. It think it was at the Rainbow Bridge where RCMP police service dogs were used to detect the firearms.

Under the previous government, I think cuts of $500 million were made to the RCMP, and there were significant cuts—I think of the same amount—to CBSA. Our government has been investing in the RCMP and CBSA so they can get more dogs to work at the border.

I wonder if you can talk about some of those investments that have been made to make sure that our agencies that are doing this good work have the tools available to them to do their job well and effectively.

4:45 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

I can tell you that there has been a reinvestment by the government into the CBSA and the RCMP on a number of fronts. Certainly on the issue of border security, additional investments have been made in CBSA to provide them with access to those dogs—which, when properly trained, can be invaluable—but also access to other technologies, because that technology is advancing and we are making investments in that.

We've been working hard to restore the capacity, and I think about $74 million was invested in CBSA for that purpose.

Did I get that right, Tina? Was I close?

4:50 p.m.

Tina Namiesniowski Executive Vice-President, Canada Border Services Agency

In the context of the interim estimates, there is funding being made available to the CBSA for expenses associated with guns and gangs. In the context of that funding, there is funding that includes additional dog teams, and the funding is slightly less than the amount the minister mentioned.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Ms. Damoff.

Before I turn to Mr. Paul-Hus, I have a question. You mentioned a figure, Minister, of $95 million. What did that refer to?

4:50 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

It's generally for the investments in the asylum system. There are investments in improving our systems and also investments in the agencies and departments, particularly pertaining to the investment in asylum.

4:50 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Canada Border Services Agency

Tina Namiesniowski

The investment in asylum that was provided to CBSA through the last budget, budget 2018, was approximately $72 million, some for this current fiscal year, as well as an amount for the next fiscal year.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have seven minutes.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Blair, in your opening remarks, you talked about an anticipated increase in the number of customs pre-clearance centres in Canadian airports. Is the Quebec City airport one of your priorities for passenger pre-clearance?

4:50 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

Yes, there is. The airport in Quebec City is one of the airports where there are current discussions taking place. There is still a great deal of work to do, but that is certainly one of the areas where I know discussions are taking place.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

That is great. Thank you.

Since you have been a minister, you have often said in your responses to questions that the Conservative government reduced the budget of the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, by $300 million.

When Mr. Ossowski, the CBSA president, appeared before our committee on May 10, 2018, he explained that the decreases in the supplementary estimates could be a result of a number of major projects coming to an end. Funding had been allocated, but was no longer necessary. Hence the budget was reduced and returned to stability. Can you confirm for us today that the reply suggested to you from the Prime Minister's office was false, that the Conservatives did not make cuts, and that it is simply about going back to a normal budget?

4:50 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

I was pointing out that there was approximately $1.2 billion taken from the security services during the final few years of the term of your government, and about $319 million of that came from CBSA.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Okay.

So can you confirm that our government never made any cuts, that there was an increase in order to fund projects, and that the budget has subsequently returned to normal?

4:50 p.m.

Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction

Bill Blair

I can simply tell you that there was a $319-million cut—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Okay.