Public Safety Committee on June 3rd, 2019

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I have just one quick question, if I may.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You can have one question.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Regarding the recruiting needs, are you getting the recruits?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm very pleased to have given you this 10 seconds which has, in the history of our parliamentary procedure, stretched into a couple of minutes.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

I love you for it, big guy.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

It's what you call a buzzer beater.

Can you answer that briefly, Mr. Brennan?

[D/Commr Brian Brennan]

We're meeting the recruiting numbers to make sure that we are on track for 40 troops a year to go through Depot, and we're continuing to examine ways to increase our recruiting capacity to ensure that it is sustained over a long period of time.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

At 40 out of 52 weeks in the year, that's a graduating class of almost one a week coming out of Depot.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You're going to have to live with that answer, Mr. Eglinski.

I did pick up on Ms. Sahota's question with respect to the increase in the disaster assistance money. I think that would be of interest to all of us, so if that could be made available to the committee, that would be useful.

With that, again I want to thank you for your appearance here, Minister, and I thank your colleagues. I suspect that you will be leaving and your colleagues remaining. Minister Blair is also up next.

With that we'll suspend.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

We're resuming. I see that we still have quorum.

Welcome, Minister Blair.

We have Minister Blair, but we also have to deal with the estimates themselves. We have another motion to pass with respect to Bill C-93, the recommendations that we would like also to get done.

My proposal is that we leave ourselves 10 minutes at the end of the—

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

What about my questions?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I don't know; that may be a problem.

I would encourage colleagues, ministers and witnesses to be economical in their questions and their answers, if that's at all possible.

With that, I welcome Minister Blair to the committee once again.

We look forward to your remarks. Questions are after.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will endeavour to be judicious in my responses, to adhere to your direction.

It's a pleasure to once again have the opportunity to join the committee to discuss the 2019-20 main estimates. These estimates will include authorities for measures that, of course, were announced in budget 2019.

I'd like to take the opportunity to focus on some of the important measures that will fall within my mandate of ensuring that our borders remain secure and leading efforts to reduce organized crime. On the latter, as I've noted to this committee previously, taking action against gun and gang violence remains a top priority. We've seen an increase in gun violence across the country in recent years. Guns are still getting into the hands of people who would commit crimes with them. While I think the measures in Bill C-71 are exceptional and will go a long way to reversing the trend, I also believe there is more we can do.

Earlier this month, we issued a report outlining what we heard in an extensive cross-country engagement on this issue. In the meantime, funding through these estimates and budget 2019 can and will make a real difference right away.

I've noted before that the $327 million over five years, which the government announced in 2017, is already beginning to help support a variety of initiatives to reduce gun and gang activity in our communities across Canada. Over the past few months, I have been pleased to work with provinces, territories and municipalities as we roll out their portions of that funding specific to initiatives in their regions.

The Government of Canada is investing an additional $42 million through this year's estimates in the guns and gangs initiative. This is a horizontal initiative, which is being led by Public Safety Canada, and it is working in partnership, as always, with the Canada Border Services Agency and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

With respect to policing more specifically, in this year's budget there's substantial funding for policing, including $508.6 million over five years to support the RCMP in strengthening policing operations. Of that $508.6 million, there is $96.2 million allotted for the RCMP policing operations in the estimates provided today. The RCMP is, of course, absolutely key to protecting our national security, to reducing the threat of organized crime and to supporting prevention, intervention and enforcement initiatives right across Canada.

The CBSA supports the RCMP and other law enforcement partners in Canada to counter organized crime and gang activity. Investments made through the estimates and budget will support new technologies, increased detector dog teams, specialized training and tools, and an augmented intelligence and risk assessment capacity. All of this will help to enhance the CBSA's operational responses to better interdict illicit goods, such as firearms and opioids, from crossing our borders. I'm confident the funding we're providing will help all of our partners keep Canada's evolving safety and security needs in place and include addressing gun and gang challenges.

With respect to the border security aspects of my mandate, I'm pleased to report that the government is making significant investments, through the budget and these estimates, to better manage, discourage and prevent irregular migration. Budget 2019 provides $1.2 billion over five years, starting this year, to IRCC, IRB, CBSA, RCMP and CSIS to implement a comprehensive asylum reform and border action plan. While IRCC is the lead on this action plan, the public safety portfolio has a very significant contribution to make.

As the committee is aware, the CBSA is responsible for processing refugee claims, which are made at official points of entry and at their inland offices. The funding approved under budget 2019 will enable the CBSA to strengthen its processes at our border, to help increase the asylum system's capacity and to accelerate claim processing. It will facilitate the removal of individuals found not to be in need of genuine protection from Canada in a more efficient and timely way. The strategy, supported by that funding, will guide these efforts.

Before I close, I'd like to take the opportunity to highlight one further item. Canadians have been hearing a great deal lately about money laundering, terrorism financing and tax evasion happening within our country, and they are rightly concerned. Money laundering is not only a threat to public safety, but it also harms the integrity and stability of the financial sector and the economy more broadly. The government is not waiting to take action to protect Canada's safety, security and quality of life. I'm pleased to note that in budget 2019, the government will invest $24 million over five years for Public Safety Canada to create an anti-money laundering action coordination and enforcement unit, or ACE. This is a pilot project that will strengthen inter-agency action against money laundering and financial crimes.

In addition, a further $68.9 million will be invested over five years, allocated to the RCMP, to enhance federal policing capacity, including the effort to fight money laundering, beginning with $4.1 million allocated in this fiscal year.

In addition, $28 million over five years is being invested in CBSA to support a new centre of expertise. The centre will work to identify and prosecute incidents of trade fraud, as well as potential cases of trade-based money laundering to be referred to the RCMP for investigation and prosecution.

As always, these are just a few examples of the important and vital work that the public safety portfolio and, in this case, the many departments that support my mandate are doing to protect Canadians.

Once again, I thank the committee members for their consideration of these estimates and for their ongoing efforts.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to members' questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Minister.

With that, Ms. Dabrusin, you have seven minutes, please.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today.

I've had the opportunity to raise this before. I would like to continue with the conversation about guns and gangs. You mentioned it in your opening, and I was looking through the main estimates about the work that's being done on border operations as well.

On my first question, when we're looking at gun issues, all the conversations I've had were really talking about supply and demand, both pieces. If we're first looking at the supply side of things, you mentioned it briefly, but could you tell us a bit more about what's being done by the CBSA to prevent gun smuggling?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes. Thank you very much, Ms. Dabrusin.

Guns that end up in the hands of criminals and are used to commit violent crimes in our community have a number of different sources. There are various estimates available from the various police services and agencies across the country that are determining the source of those illicit guns. It's quite clear that a significant portion of the guns used by gangs to commit criminal offences in our communities across Canada are illicitly imported into Canada across our borders. CBSA, of course, has a very important role in interdicting that supply.

I had the opportunity on the weekend to go down and visit the Point Edward CBSA facility and had the opportunity to speak about some of the work they're doing there, with the use of new technologies, the dog teams and, frankly, some really extraordinary and dedicated individuals—

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

If I could jump in, when you're talking about dog teams, are you actually talking about dogs?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, real dogs. I actually met the dog. His name is Bones.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

They showed me how he searched a car. It's a really extraordinary use of even that. It's low-tech, but it works, and it works really well.

They were able to also share with me some of the extraordinary successes they've been able to achieve, including, for example, the seizure of a very high-powered assault rifle over the May 24 weekend, along with a number of large capacity magazines and ammunition. There is some excellent work that's taking place across our borders.

I will also tell you that there's an acknowledgement within CBSA and within the law enforcement community that to interdict the supply of guns coming across the border from the United States.... The United States is essentially the largest handgun arsenal in the world. There are many firearms there. Criminals know that if they can bring those guns across our border, they can be sold at a significant premium above what would be paid in the U.S., because they're not as readily available in Canada. It's a crime motivated by profit.

The police and CBSA understand that you can't just interdict the supply at the border, so there are some extraordinary efforts taking place. We are investing in the RCMP and municipal and provincial police services right across Canada that work in integrated border enforcement teams and conduct organized crime investigations to identify the individuals and the criminal organizations who are responsible for purchasing these guns in the United States, smuggling them across the border and then subsequently selling them to criminals in our country.

We have seen some extraordinary successes as a result of that partnership as well, but the work continues and is ongoing. We are making significant investments in this budget in CBSA and in law enforcement's capacity to conduct those investigations to improve the quality of the intelligence they gather and how they use that data to effect good success in their investigations and successful prosecution of the individuals who are responsible.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

Staying on the supply side—I'm hoping we have a few minutes for demand—you have had a study. It was part of your mandate letter. You were asked to study a possible ban on handguns and assault weapons. It was, I believe, a “what we heard” report that was released. Would you be able to tell us about what the next steps are?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

We identified a number of ways in which guns were getting into the hands of criminals. As I've already mentioned, a portion of those—some estimate 50%, some estimate as much as 70%—are in fact smuggled across the border. We also know that a number of those firearms that are subsequently used to commit criminal offences in Canada are domestically sourced.

Essentially, there are a number of reasonably well-identified ways in which that takes place. With regard to the first one, there have been a significant number of large-scale thefts where guns have been stolen either from a gun retailer or from an individual Canadian gun owner. Those guns are then subsequently made available on the street, sold to criminal organizations and used in criminal acts across the country. One of the things I heard, and we discussed very extensively, was how we might improve the secure storage of firearms to prevent those thefts, to make it harder for criminals to steal those guns and subsequently for them to go on the street.

There were also a number of cases where firearms were identified that had been purchased legally in this country, but then subsequently diverted into the criminal market by an individual with the intent of profiting by resale of those guns. It's a process that is sometimes referred to as straw purchasing. Essentially, it's an individual who has the legal authority to purchase a handgun, who sometimes tries to conceal its origin by removing the serial number, and then resells it on the street to somebody at a significant profit.

We identified in conversations across the country, and particularly with law enforcement, the importance of improving the tracing of those firearms that are used in criminal offences, so we can determine their origin of sale and better identify—and by detecting, thereby deterring—and hold accountable those individuals who are involved in that criminal activity. There were a number of other measures that we also heard about on interdicting the supply.

I've also heard from a number of people who have expressed concern that certain types of weapons, frankly, are a significant risk, and that additional steps should be considered in making them less available to those who would use them to harm others.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You're not quite finished yet, but I'm sure that Mr. Graham will thank you if in fact we finish before seven minutes.

You have 40 seconds left.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I do. Thank you.

On the demand piece, quickly, we were at an announcement in Toronto in December, specifically about how we help youth and how we help the communities who have been impacted.

Can you tell me a bit about that, please?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Ms. Dabrusin, much of my earlier comments were with respect to interdicting the supply of guns that get into the hands of criminals. However, our government recognizes that you also have to reduce the demand for those guns, so we are also making significant investments in communities and in kids. We are working particularly with municipalities, but I've been to each province and we're providing resources to each of the provinces and territories to make investments in their communities and in those community organizations that do an extraordinary job of working with young people to help them make better choices, safer and more socially responsible choices, to avoid getting involved in gangs in the first place.

There are also a number of initiatives that we are supporting, working with young people who have already been involved in gangs, to help them leave that gang lifestyle and to not engage in violent criminal activity that causes so much trauma in our communities across the country.

There's no one single response. Frankly, it requires very significant investments, and also looking more broadly—