Evidence of meeting #19 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offenders.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Alain Rayes Conservative Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Am I to understand…
I'm sorry, but my time is already up.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Sapers and Madam Kingsley, for your testimony today, as well as for the job that you do in providing an independent and objective voice and providing a safe and humane correctional environment.
I have been listening very carefully to your testimony today and I have read your report. I want to underline that I absolutely share your conclusion that there has been an erosion in the state of that environment.
Just to highlight some of the statistics that really jump off the page, at least for me, there is the increase in the overall inmate population of 10% over the last 10 years. One wonders whether or not that has something to do with the overreliance on mandatory minimum sentences, some of which have since been struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada. We see the overrepresentation of indigenous communities, with a growth of 50% in their population, and an overuse of segregation, with nearly half of all inmates having been submitted to some form or other of segregation. There are insufficient resources for those who suffer from mental illness and there have been cuts to programming over the last decade or so, which is the area I want to spend a few moments focusing on.
I agree with you as well that in order to succeed in reintegrating inmates into the community, we have to find ways to restore CSC's fundamental role in rehabilitating inmates through programming. Some of my colleagues have highlighted as well how the inmate population is already disadvantaged because they don't have the same degree of education, skills, and training that those who are not in the inmate population do.
In your view, why is it that inmates are not completing programming? If I'm correct, that number sits at about 65%. Does it have something to do with a lack of incentives in the approach to engaging inmates in completing programming?
12:10 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Thank you for the question about programming. Again, there is not one answer but several answers. I'm sorry for my lengthy answers, but it's complicated stuff sometimes.
Part of it is the demographic of the inmate population. We're dealing with an inmate population, as I mentioned before, with a very high prevalence of mental health issues, both acute psychiatric illness and a variety of other impediments, including intellectual impediments.
Another part is the educational preparation of inmates. When the average numeracy or literacy level is grade 8, sometimes there is a mismatch in getting the maximum benefit from a suite of correctional programs.
There are problems with the delivery of the programs themselves. You may be enrolled in a program, and then, for one reason or another, things interfere with the program timetable and scheduling: the institution may be locked down, the program delivery people may no longer be available, there may be another change in institutional operation, or whatever. You may get offenders who are so late in their sentence by the time they get into the program that their statutory release date is coming up, and then the program is no longer relevant to them.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
Is there any correlation between completing programs and being more likely to get early release?
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Well, there used to be.
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Sadly, one of the things that we've noticed is that, with some exception, overall we have not seen earlier program engagement and more program completion translate into more positive recommendations before the board and more positive decisions by the board.
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
I think that there are lots of issues around other policy changes.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
What's the number one issue? If you had to put your finger on it, why is it that those decision-makers are not recognizing that those who complete programs should be better situated for reintegration into the community through early release?
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
There is a very high concordance right now between the assessment for decision and the recommendations by the Correctional Service of Canada and the decisions that are ultimately made by the Parole Board, so you have two problems that combine. Number one is the decrease in the number of people getting before a parole board for a decision—
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
That's because some are just simply waiving their right.
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
They're waiving it. They're too close to SR—statutory release—and they haven't completed the programs, etc., so there's a decrease in getting before the board.
Second, you have negative assessments coming forward to the decision process—
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
—because of lack of completion of the correctional plan, and the Parole Board continues to be very risk averse when presented with that kind of assessment and increasingly makes negative decisions about release.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marco Mendicino Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON
I'm going to have to pick this up in the second round.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Sapers, earlier you alluded to double bunking. The committee has discussed this point previously. Where are we with the problems I mentioned earlier, such as the violence this may cause and the danger it may present for officers? Has any progress been made on this?
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Double-bunking is down. It was at an all-time high during the construction period that the Correctional Service of Canada went through. There was a lot of dislocation and relocation and involuntary transfers.
As you may recall, over the last eight years the Correctional Service of Canada has closed three institutions, decommissioned about 1,000 cells, built about 2,700 new ones, and had a net increase of about 1,700 cells. Part of that was to accommodate the 10% growth in population that we talked about and part of it was to alleviate other population pressures, primarily double-bunking. That is the placement of two inmates in a cell designed for one.
Double-bunking was so high on the prairies a few years back that they were double-bunking in segregation. We've seen that ameliorated.
Of course, this has come at tremendous expense. It cost $750 million to $800 million in capital expense to build those 2,700 cells, and then there's the ongoing expense of operating them.
There's still some mismatch between the available bed capacity and the population distribution by security level, by region, and by gender.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
Really quickly before my time runs out, how has your recommendation for a deputy commissioner for aboriginal inmates been received by the government, as far as you know?
12:15 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
The response has traditionally been that adding an executive to the committee specifically focused on aboriginal corrections would simply be too bureaucratic and too expensive.
Having the Correctional Service of Canada complained about as being too bureaucratic is— There's an irony there. This would neither be bureaucratic nor expensive, but that's been the major roadblock that's been presented. There's never really been a good analysis by the Correctional Service of Canada to demonstrate how they can achieve the leadership that's required with the status quo, and clearly the status quo is failing them.
12:20 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC
In the 30 seconds I have left, can you perhaps quickly expand? I know that in response to Mr. Spengemann you talked a bit about how you saw that role, but could you elaborate on what it brings to the table, countering those arguments of it being just bloated bureaucracy that's too expensive?
