Public Safety Committee on Feb. 18th, 2016

[Nada Semaan]

Absolutely, part of my introduction was also how we work with the World Customs Organization. We have a number of partners we work with, but absolutely, we always review for best practices. We review both in terms of a security perspective but also in terms of a welcoming perspective. It's easy to enforce our security while at the same time making sure that the face of Canada and that welcoming of Canada is also presented at the same time.

For us, that's very important. The service and the enforcement weigh equally in terms of our delivery.

You're right that some countries lean more towards enforcement. For us, you don't have to compromise enforcement while still being respectful and providing excellent service. There is no difference between Canadians and foreigners who come in—the respect is equal.

[Nicola Di Iorio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

But my point was the exact opposite. The impression when going to countries like China or Israel—I name those because there are very high security concerns in those countries—is that often people don't have the same approach and their authorities don't have the same approach as ours. Ours is more similar to the U.S. where there is more of a notion of brute force that is being projected than what you will see in those countries where their methods have been refined. Therefore, it is either neutral or even more welcoming.

That's my question. Do you compare with what other countries do?

[Nada Semaan]

We do, and I will let Caroline, who is our head of operations, discuss what we currently do, but absolutely, we do.

[Caroline Xavier, Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency]

I would like to add that service is primordial to us at the agency. I can tell you that we in fact examine the practices and standards of other countries, including those of the Group of Five, but we go beyond that. As Ms. Semaan said, we are a member of the World Customs Organization.

Given all the work we do to strengthen our capacity and other aspects, the agency is highly regarded for its services and its professionalism. In fact, other international organizations often contact us to see how we provide our training.

At the CBSA College in Rigaud, we put a lot of emphasis on service and that continues to evolve on a daily basis. We want to ensure that we are always up to date, as you said, with regard to what other countries are doing. We are always renewing the training we provide our officers.

As Ms. Semaan mentioned, we examine the complaints we receive to see how we can improve our services; we learn from those complaints. However, we receive a great many compliments about our services. It is true we always receive more complaints than compliments, but those who complain come and tell us immediately.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Ms. Xavier.

Mr. O'Toole.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to our witnesses. I appreciated your testimony.

Ms. Xavier, it's nice to see you again.

In particular, on page 7 of your presentation you talk about the role of CBSA in screening and that hundreds of thousands are done at the border here in North America. It's very impressive work. The last government was very proud of trying to give new tools and resources to handle the volumes you face, so we appreciate that.

When it comes to the Syrian program you mentioned 25,000 in your report, but this morning Mr. Oldham mentioned the number was 21,000 currently screened. When we had questions about the screening he deferred to you. You were the second act today. My questions are going to be focusing on that.

How many CBSA officials were involved on the ground in the three locations overseas in the screening for this program?

[Nada Semaan]

I will ask Caroline to jump in on the detailed numbers, but we're happy to be the second act in this. You're correct, it is 21,000 to date but the goal is, as you're aware, 25,000 to the end of February.

But the security....

You can answer the numbers and then we can go to the other questions.

[Caroline Xavier]

I won't be telling you what the numbers are. For reasons of security we're not divulging how many officers we have in situ who are performing the duties.

I can tell you that we have had a series of rotations of staff who have gone abroad to support the initiative, and we're doing so through a couple of mechanisms. We are lending them to the IRCC as visa officers, and they are also participating as part of the interviews and providing support to them with regard to document integrity, guidance and so on for the screening.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I certainly don't want to stray into areas that could violate sensitive information.

Have you been on the ground yourself to see any of the work?

[Caroline Xavier]

I have not yet been, but I will be there by the weekend.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Have a safe trip.

We won't say the number, but of your officials who have been on the ground, how many have language skills for the region?

[Caroline Xavier]

Again, I won't speak to the numbers, but in general all our officers are supported by translators. Some of our officers who have been stationed in situ have language skills, and we have the same capacity at the port of entry.

We've ensured that as refugees arrive, they are being welcomed by some of our officers who have the language skills as well as by the translators who are supporting the effort.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Would it be fair to say that's mainly through translation?

[Caroline Xavier]

It's fair to say that the majority would be through translation, because we have officers both from the IRCC department and from our organization who are there with some language skills to assist us in confirming that the translations are of the quality they should be.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Does each rotation you talk about being sent over to this special duty receive special training on culture and security for the region, or is someone pulled off the Ambassador Bridge and sent to Lebanon? How does it work?

[Caroline Xavier]

It's all of the above.

Training is provided in advance of somebody being sent overseas. We provide additional support to the visa officers in terms of training and awareness with regard to the types of questions and intelligence information on the country itself, so yes, training is provided to all officers and all staff who are sent abroad.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Would you be able to share with the committee the types of questions asked?

[Caroline Xavier]

No, we will not be able to share the types of questions that are asked.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

How long is each interview and how many people are involved? For example, if it's a family, are there four or five people in the cubicle?

I've seen some of it on television. Are these interviews 10 minutes, 15 minutes, or 20 minutes, on average?

[Caroline Xavier]

In terms of the process, the preliminary interview is done by the IRCC department, so the visa screening officer does the preliminary interview overseas. As I mentioned, it's a multi-layered approach to security.

On average, that interview can take up to an hour, and it is guided by indicators as well as guiding questions that we, along with intelligence and security partners, provide. We are there to provide that additional support to IRCC with regard to the interviews.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

So we're talking about 40 minutes per interview. Is there an average length?

Obviously, when you're planning an end date for the end of February, and you have 4,000 left, you kind of know how quickly....

[Caroline Xavier]

On average, we estimate a maximum of an hour, but for clarity as to whether or not that's being respected, the question should be referred to the IRCC, because they're the ones actually doing the interview in situ.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

In terms of biometrics, Mr. Oldham mentioned screening against Canadian and American databases. Certainly if there's a dislocated Syrian family that's been in a refugee camp for a year or more, it's not going to appear on CPIC or any of our databases in North America. How is the biometric data used? What useful comparisons are made?

I think that comparing a fingerprint against our database is irrelevant. We really need databases and intelligence from the region.

[Caroline Xavier]

Biometric screening is only one element of the overall screening apparatus that is being used as part of this process. It is only one of the multiple layers of security.

You're absolutely right that sometimes information on some of the biometrics against which we're screening may not be found, but that's why we have the additional support of the interview and a series of other security layers that are being used as part of the process to ensure that we know as much information as possible about the individuals who are coming in.

As Mr Oldham mentioned, and as our minister has mentioned, anybody we're not certain about at this point in time and anybody we require additional information or review on is set aside.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Is it fair to say then the biometrics, which the minister has referred to quite regularly, are less about checking the background of the person and more about making sure the person screened is the person who gets on the plane and gets off in Canada?