Evidence of meeting #47 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was number.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
That gets transported, imported into the prison environment, and so contraband drugs come in in many ways. Staff bring in drugs. Contractors bring in drugs. Families sometimes bring in drugs.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Frequently, when they're caught. There are throwovers. There are all kinds of examples of very clever ways that people try to introduce contraband into federal penitentiaries. We know there's no such thing as a drug-free prison, so it's always a matter of having a balance of approaches. You have to have interdiction, enforcement, harm reduction, and treatment.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Again, maybe I'm trying to simplify it too much, but in an enclosed structure, I would think that with the technology we have today, if we didn't want any drugs to get in there, it could be done. I know, as we all do, what it's like to go through airport security. I'm just having a hard time getting my head around it.
I've had people who work in the system imply to me that if they really wanted to stop this, it would be pretty easy to do. What do you say to that statement?
4:30 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
I don't know of any prison anywhere that is contraband-free.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I know that, sir. It seems to me it's a problem that we don't have to have if we are serious about stopping it. As I said, I have had—
4:30 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
I wouldn't know how to do that, and the Correctional Service of Canada wouldn't know how to do that either.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay.
Could you give me an example of legal drugs that are issued inside?
4:30 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
There's a national pharmacy that has a fairly comprehensive menu of drugs for a variety of reasons, so you have psychotropic medications for those who are dealing with mental illness, and you have a variety of other medications dealing with everything from anxiety to high blood pressure to....
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Okay, but to me, most people would say high blood pressure pills, anxiety, those are normal medications that people receive through a doctor's order whether you're in prison or not, so those shouldn't be the issue.
You seem to imply that some of the addictions in there were to legal drugs. I wouldn't think high blood pressure pills or anxiety pills are necessarily addictive. If I'm wrong, just say so. Give me examples of ones that are addictive.
4:30 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
There are analgesic medications, medications that are provided for sleep disorders or mood disorders, which may or may not be addictive, but they have a contraband value because of how they alter your mood or how they allow you to self-medicate so you're not experiencing incarceration in the same way. There are a variety of medications. Frankly, I'd rather not name the specific drugs, but the national pharmacy of the Correctional Service of Canada is very alive to the contraband drug issue and the drug diversion issue inside institutions. Sometimes there are alternative forms of drugs so that they can't be diverted as easily, so drugs are crushed—
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I have one last comment, and it will take five seconds. It would seem to me that if some of the prisoners are selling the drugs prescribed to them, then they don't need them. I'll leave it at that.
December 1st, 2016 / 4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Mr. Miller may also be surprised that drugs also get through airport security.
My first question is about the increase in prison populations. You were appointed in 2004, so I think you have a fairly good ability to comment on the last years specifically. Perhaps you could discuss the increase in prison populations over your mandate.
4:30 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
The 10-year change is about 5%, which is lower than some people expected it to be. In my opinion, most of that change is not new warrants of committal based on any kind of increase in crime but flows from policy changes that have to do with release. We've seen a stacking inside federal institutions, largely because of delay in release, to the point where the majority of inmates are now not being released until, at the earliest, their statutory release date. The impact of parole and barriers to parole release have really led to much of this increase.
What's interesting is that even though it's an increase of 4.8% or 5% overall in the last 10 years, it's a nearly 40% increase in aboriginal inmates. It's an increase of over 35% for federally sentenced women. For black inmates, which we don't talk about enough, it's a 42% increase over that same 10-year period. There are some populations that are really driving the demographics inside institutions.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
You mentioned harm reduction in your previous comments. I noted in your report that a safe tattoo harm reduction pilot project had been cancelled. Was the evidence, in your view, in support of continuing that program and perhaps expanding it?
4:35 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Yes, the early evidence was very encouraging in terms of a decrease both in blood-borne transmission of diseases and in the cost of treatment of those diseases, particularly hepatitis C, but there are also concerns about HIV/AIDS. The safer tattoo practices pilot project was very encouraging, but the program was cancelled before the evaluation was finalized.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
So the program was cancelled in spite of the evidence?
4:35 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Well, as I say, before it was finalized. I think it's safe to say that people were encouraged and then were surprised when it was cancelled.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
You noted in your opening comments, “establish 24-hour-a-day, seven-days-per-week nursing coverage at all medium and maximum security institutions.”
Do you have any idea how much that would cost?
4:35 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
No.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
You noted in your opening comments: “reallocate resources to better fund rehabilitation initiatives and community reintegration activities.”
When you say “reallocate”, specifically where do you see us taking from and where do you see us giving to?
4:35 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
I know this is a time-worn analogy, so forgive me, but think of the corrections system as a great big balloon that is squeezed in one place but pops up someplace else. We can transfer funds. The more we rely on incarceration, the more expensive things become, particularly the more we rely on incarceration with the particular demographics we have, which are those of an increasingly aging population and a significantly ill population. If you find alternatives for those people in the community, you're going to save money.
You're going to save money through decarceration. You're going to save money by accessing health care through the health system instead of through the criminal justice system. You're going to save money by allowing patients who are palliative to die in their home communities, in centres that are designed for that, or at home.
These are realities in federal corrections today. When we say “reallocate”, it really is a matter of recognizing that if you keep on doing things the way you are, you're going to spend the most money. You can save money by doing things differently and increasing access to the community for a variety of very low-risk offenders.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
I have two simple questions. They don't require a lengthy answer.
When Mr. Nicholson stands up in the House of Commons and says that he is proud of mandatory minimum sentences, should he be? Yes or no?
4:35 p.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator
Now you're asking me to get into politics. If I were to comment, I'd say no.
