Public Safety Committee on March 8th, 2016

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

It did, and that's the nature of its function, to be able to respond to emerging situations quickly.

Mr. O'Toole, you do raise a point about the future capacity of the government operations centre, and I think that's something we will have to look at very carefully. This is a very important nerve centre within the Government of Canada when something goes wrong somewhere in the country. This is a place where all of the participants—not just federal departments, but provinces, municipalities, NGOs, and members of the private sector—can come together. We're dealing with a national crisis, and we're all in the same room, and we can make sure—

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Absolutely, Minister, and that's why I'm asking. In the 2015-16 plans and priorities for your department, one of the risks identified was, and I quote, “That the...GOC...may be unable to support a coordinated response to a large-scale...event.” That was identified by the department before the Syrian refugee program, but you're saying they needed no additional resources and were able to coordinate this?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

That's correct, but let me ask the deputy minister to comment.

[François Guimont]

When that risk was identified, we wanted to differentiate between the individuals within the capacity of the team and the actual building. The building does have limitations, if you will, which is something that I have discussed with the minister. We are taking steps to address that building issue, because the capacity of the GOC to coordinate in response to a major issue is a function of the team, but also of the location, the structure of the building, and its capacity. That risk is tied more to that component than to what I would refer to as human resources, their training and their capacity to work together and deliver a coordinated response.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Would we be able to get a breakdown by department of how much spending was required and how that cash management affected additional operations?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Do you mean in relation to the overall Syrian refugee initiative?

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Yes, because the supplementary estimates (B) did not have details apart from CIC's commitment to the program. I think even our new members of the family, our new permanent residents want to make sure that we spend and allocate accordingly. There's been a lot of concern that certain programs like the private sponsorship route for refugees and a number of other programs have been shelved to accommodate the timeline set during the election. Cash management is a broad term. I'd like to see how much it affected the budgets of your departments and what priorities were shifted to accommodate that.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Mr. O'Toole, I will undertake to raise that with Mr. McCallum and my other cabinet colleagues to see if we can present to MPs and to Canadians publicly a final report on the Syrian initiative so that people can have all the facts and figures on how it went.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Because in fairness, $13.6 million is all we're seeing, and I'm sure it was more than that.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Let me see if we can put it together. I agree with your point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

Monsieur Dubé.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the minister and our other guests for being here with us today. Mr. Guimont, as my colleagues have also done, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for your services.

My question is on Bill C-51.

The following issue is still of great concern to the NDP—especially after listening to Mr. Coulombe yesterday, and also in thinking about his testimony before our committee a few weeks ago. I am referring to the fact that the powers are currently being used, even though the oversight mechanisms that are considered essential to ensure that those powers are well used have still not been put in place. The NDP is still of the opinion that this act should be repealed.

My question is about the role opposition parties should play in this regard. Minister, you have had some fine words to say on this, but the fact remains that Mr. McGuinty was appointed without any consultation of the opposition parties. You went to London. Yes, there were conferences, but you also wanted to review the best practices of the United Kingdom committee which is the counterpart of the one you want to set up. Once again, no members of the opposition were invited.

Following the letter Mr. Mulcair sent to the Prime Minister, will opposition members and parties finally really be formally included in this process?

Could you also provide us with an update on the process? Where do things stand? There is some urgency now. The powers are being used and the oversight is not adequate.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I fully appreciate your point, Monsieur Dubé. I want to give you the absolute reassurance from me as the responsible minister but also on behalf of the government that this is very much intended to be a process in which parliamentarians will play an exceedingly important role in two ways.

First of all, it's by participating in the consultation about what needs to be done in specific legislative terms to fix the problems that were presented by Bill C-51. We have identified a number of those issues in the past, the definition of “terrorist propaganda”, for example, the problem with the no-fly list, various other ways that have been enumerated in which the legislation has presented difficulties and has been rightly criticized by a great many Canadians. We are at the beginning of what I think is likely to be the most inclusive consultation process about national security that the country has ever seen.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

With your permission, Minister, I would like to ask the following question.

With regard to the creation and operation of that committee, do you commit to formally including opposition parties?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Yes, the commitment is clear. Now, when you say “this committee” you mean the committee of parliamentarians to scrutinize....

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

The McGuinty committee, as Mr. O'Toole likes to refer to it.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

It's a legislated statutory committee of parliamentarians to scrutinize the security intelligence operations of the Government of Canada.

As I said earlier, there are probably 17 different departments and agencies that have some security function. The committee will be a committee representing all parties in the House of Commons. We are still considering the interface with the Senate. That hasn't been decided yet. I'll be meeting with senators later on to discuss that, but on the specific question of whether members of the opposition will be on that committee, yes, absolutely. If they weren't, the committee wouldn't work.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I would like to specify that my concern is not about the presence of members on the committee, but about the participation of the opposition in the setting up and operations of the committee. We can talk about this again, because my time is limited.

With your permission, I am going to move on to another topic.

There was a Globe and Mail story yesterday, with the Prime Minister going to visit his counterpart in Washington, on the question of streamlining border services and how that's all operating. Some concerns were raised by the Privacy Commissioner with regard to removing red tape and the consequences that this can have on how information flows.

The other problem is that often when we have these agreements with Americans, it's important to remind folks that our laws and American laws are quite different especially when it comes to protecting the privacy of Canadians. Where is that process at? What's going on, and can you guarantee to this committee that the private information of Canadians will be protected according to Canadian law and not American law?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Any agreement between two countries with respect to matters of information about citizens would need to respect the laws of the jurisdiction within which the information originated. So the short answer to your question is yes.

As discussions about the border proceed, we have been very careful to engage the office of the Privacy Commissioner, to seek guidance from that office to make sure that the best practices are followed. We will continue to seek that advice, and of course, after the fact we're obliged to produce a privacy impact statement, so we will make sure that is done—

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

As my time is almost up, I have one last question for you and it follows upon the one my colleague Mr. Garrison put to you in the House concerning the Police Officer Recruitment Fund, which was abolished by the previous government.

Will you, yes or no, commit to re-establishing that fund?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

That is not in the fiscal frame at the present time. What is within the fiscal frame is a commitment that we made during the election to establish a new fund, specifically directed at the battle against guns and gangs, in the amount of $100 million on an annual basis that would flow through provinces to police forces in order to assist those forces with the very difficult on-the-ground work they need to do in combatting illegal guns and gangs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Mendicino.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister for coming today to talk about the supplementary estimates.

I also want to take the opportunity to thank the deputy minister for his years of service. How many years did you say it was?

[François Guimont]

It was 34 years and—

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

It must have gone by like the blink of an eye.