Public Safety Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

When all is said and done, there will be more work to do. Will it mean extra work for the agency? You already have a heavier workload with the arrival of the refugees. Will the bill have a negative impact workload-wise?

[Martin Bolduc]

The exchange and collection of information will take place automatically via a computer platform. Our officers will not have to do anything in order to collect or exchange the information.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor for five minutes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bolduc, whenever I read a piece of legislation, I always like to consider its practical application, because it helps me better understand the legislative content.

Could you give me an example of how proposed subsection 93(1) would apply practically speaking? In what typical scenarios would the provision apply?

[Martin Bolduc]

I'm going to ask my colleague Mr. Lawrence to answer that.

[Andrew Lawrence]

Practically speaking, this would be the section under which air carriers would submit outbound flight manifests to the CBSA, constituting an exit record in the air mode.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

What does proposed paragraph 93(1)(b) mean, then?

[Andrew Lawrence]

Proposed paragraph 93(1)(b) is the limit to which exit information would be contained, so it's the basic biographic data found on page 2 of the passport, the type of travel document or passport that was used.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Very good.

Under proposed paragraph 93(1)(b), who has to provide the information?

In the case of a bus that is crossing the border into the United States, does the responsibility fall on the driver? Who is authorized to do it?

[Andrew Lawrence]

Under the act, “person” also refers to corporations and companies, so in this instance it could be an air carrier; it could be a Greyhound bus operator; it could be the driver. Heading into the United States, that person or the people on that bus would be processed; they'd be admitted; and there would be a reciprocal exchange so we would receive those entry records. This section, though, would not pertain to entering the U.S.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

And what does proposed item 93(1)(b)(iii) mean?

[Andrew Lawrence]

It means that if you are departing Canada on a commercial aircraft and your flight leaves Vancouver, touches down in Montreal, and then goes to Paris, your port of departure is Montreal, not Vancouver: even though you may have boarded the aircraft in Vancouver, you left Canada out of Montreal. That's just by way of example.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

All right.

I'd like to discuss proposed subsection 92(2), and, specifically, paragraph 92(2)(b), which reads as follows:

(2) The Governor in Council may make regulations for the purposes of subsection (1), including regulations… (b) respecting the circumstances in which the information may be collected….

What does the term “circumstances” mean in this case?

[Andrew Lawrence]

As an example, the “circumstances” would be that upon entry to the United States, that information would come back to CBSA, constituting an exit record from Canada.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

It means, then, that the agency has the discretionary authority to decide to collect information on only one category of passengers, rather than all passengers. The agency could, for instance, opt to collect information on individuals travelling to the United States, but choose not to collect information on those travelling to Great Britain.

Is that how I should interpret it?

[Martin Bolduc]

No. What is important to understand is that an exchange of information with the Americans takes place systematically at the border. The bill would give us the ability to collect information not just in the case of air travel, but also in the case of all other modes of transportation. Therefore, we could ask the cruise line to provide information on passengers travelling on a cruise that departs from Cap-aux-Meules, in the Magdalen Islands, for instance.

The language in the bill covers all possible scenarios, whether we are talking about rail, marine, air, or land travel. You brought up the example of a bus, which is an entirely relevant scenario. That is the reason behind the language that was used.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

Mr. Motz.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions. As was said by my colleague Ms. Damoff as well as referenced before, provisions in this legislation will allow the sharing of information with law enforcement on such things as Amber Alerts, sex trafficking, and things of that nature. If the law enforcement community issues alerts, normally those databases aren't interfaced with CBSA. How do you receive them to be alerted to the potential of a border crossing? Is it something you monitor? Is it something the police have to push to your agency? How does that work currently, and how do you see this legislation impacting it?

[Martin Bolduc]

We have access automatically to some information. In other instances, the police of jurisdiction will push that information to us.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Do you have access to CPIC?

[Martin Bolduc]

We do.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Okay.

[Martin Bolduc]

But again, what Bill C-21 will give us is the ability to intervene with very limited information. In the case of an Amber Alert, right now, if we don't have specifics, it's very difficult for us to be able to pinpoint which flight the people are planning to leave on. With this, give me names and I'll be able to do a query and be able to pinpoint the flight instead of running in an airport and trying to locate people. That's really the benefit of Bill C-21.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

I'm going to ask a very broad question, I guess. We know, as we move forward in this legislation, Mr. Chair and committee, we're going to be expected to go through some of the provisions line by line, to make sure we are in agreement and can move forward.

CBSA is the law enforcement agency that plays out how Bill C-21 is going to be operationalized. You have had a chance to review this. I would like to ask all three of you individually what suggestions, in an ideal world, you would make to this committee to maybe examine differently or tweak a little bit—from your opinions—to make Bill C-21 even better than what's being proposed currently.

[Martin Bolduc]

I will leave it to the good judgment of the committee to make recommendations. What I can—