Public Safety Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Sorry, just let me interrupt for a second.

For years in law enforcement, we would wish that those making the decisions would have considered x, y, and z. And “we” are now the “they”. To get this right for the long term, you guys are the experts in this. We rely...and the reason you're here as witnesses is to give us some of that information.

I don't know if the chair will allow you the freedom to speak freely about—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

The chair always allows the freedom to speak freely.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Very good.

Again, this is not a partisan issue. This is about whether there is something in here that is a touchpoint that we can tweak and make better than what's being proposed today.

[Martin Bolduc]

I completely understand your question.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Thank you.

[Martin Bolduc]

If I may, I will reiterate that I will leave it to the good judgment of this committee to make recommendations.

I can tell you—and I will leave you to determine whether it was the previous, previous government or the previous government—that CBSA has been an integral part of the putting together of this bill. We believe that what's being proposed for your review will have huge benefits for Canada and for the CBSA to be able to fully accomplish our law enforcement mandate and give us the ability to intervene in those instances where today we cannot.

So, you know, there's a lot of “us” in that bill, and we believe it will give us what we need. As well, I do a lot of international conferences and international meetings. The other benefit is that it will bring Canada on par with the rest of the world and our Five Eyes partners. There's a huge, huge benefit for Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Motz.

Thank you, Mr. Bolduc, for that very diplomatic reply.

Mr. Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, thank you very much.

I'd like to circle back one more time to the exchange of questions between Mr. Bolduc and Ms. Damoff and Mr. Motz on the question of human smuggling, not specific to the issue of Amber Alerts where there's a look-out trigger through law enforcement, but the broader question of human smuggling, much of which remains undetected.

We have anecdotes that came through social media several months ago of a flight attendant who, just on the basis of odd behaviour between an adult male and a young female, asked some questions. It came to light that this was a case of human smuggling. She intervened successfully, and that individual, to my knowledge, was apprehended.

When there is no trigger to law enforcement, how has this system in other jurisdictions been helpful in guarding against human smuggling, just on the basis of the biographic data that you mentioned is being collected upon exit?

[Martin Bolduc]

Again, there's a wide range—getting biographic information or getting a lead from a police agency or people working in an air environment. You talked about a flight attendant. You have people working at the check-in counter.

All those people have an ability to see behaviour that might be not in the normal sphere. With them reaching out to us...and giving us the tools to be able to intervene, that's one of the big advantages of Bill C-21.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Is it fair to say, then, that to have the exit data, even if the individual has left already six hours ago or 12 hours ago, and to have that snapshot that the person exited at the border is helpful to law enforcement and other jurisdictions as well to then more quickly take action as opposed to not having the exit data to begin with?

[Martin Bolduc]

It's a huge benefit, yes. It's not only being able to intervene at the moment, on the spot. It's also the value of the information for investigative purposes.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

My final question is a bit out of the box, and it goes to the perceived value that I see from the system. It's a question of whether we could make the data available to Canadians. For example, you could have permanent residents who, at this point, have to manually write down their entries and exits and keep a personal tally to make sure they meet the requirements towards citizenship. In the same breath, Canadian citizens may have questions about provincial eligibility and, again, have to keep tabs on their own travel schedule.

Has any thought been given to the possibility of making the data set available? One can sort of visualize an app, perhaps, where somebody could log in, get their travel status, and get their accumulated dates in Canada through the data that you collect at any given point of time. Is that something that is viable from both a data security perspective and a cost perspective?

[Martin Bolduc]

Right now, people who require their travel history have an ability to make an ATIP request to the CBSA, and we will provide that travel history. What you raise is whether there is a better way to do this than to process paper. It's something that we've started to discuss internally, and finding the right way to be able to have people query their own information is something that we could see in the future, but right now there is no immediate plan to do that.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

That would certainly be a way to corroborate the value of the system as a whole, if there were a more efficient way to give public access.

[Martin Bolduc]

My discussion with colleagues was that if you are able to go on the CRA website and query your own file, I think there is a way maybe to be able to have that information available when somebody requests it.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm slightly under my time. If another colleague has a question, I'd be happy to delegate the remainder of my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

No one wants 47 seconds.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Dubé.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I have a very quick question.

I'm curious as to the existing mechanisms governing the sharing of information between Canada and the United States in the case of ongoing criminal investigations.

[Martin Bolduc]

The Customs Act and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act allow the agency to share information in the case of a criminal investigation. Both of those acts already have provisions in that regard. They allow for the sharing of information, whether with a Canadian organization or our American counterparts.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

I'm not sure whether anyone here will be able to answer this next question. I'd like to know whether the situation is the same for such organizations as the RCMP and CSIS when it comes to sharing information with their American counterparts in similar circumstances.

[Martin Bolduc]

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the legislative provisions applicable to those two organizations, but I would imagine they have something similar to what the agency has.

[Matthew Dubé, NDP, Beloeil—Chambly, QC]

Thank you.

That's all.