Public Safety Committee on Nov. 7th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Be very brief.

[Audra Andrews]

I think we do a pretty good job of analyzing the problems. We look at contributing factors to a crime, and if substance abuse is an issue, then we will address it. We have tools to assess that. Do we always have the right programs at the right time, and do we have those supports later on in the community? Addiction is lifelong, and one program is not necessarily going to cure it, so it's a matter of follow-up and a continuum of care in the community. You can't just drop them off and say “Good luck; you've got the skills.”

[Zef Ordman]

Now they're only getting one program that theoretically meets everything, which I somewhat doubt, so there is no drug-related or violence-focused.... It's not happening. There's one program to fit all, roughly speaking.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Saini.

Ms. Gallant, you have five minutes, please.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

As you know, section 84 of the CCRA requires CSC to involve communities in the planning for the release of indigenous inmates to the community. If an inmate expresses an interest in being released into an aboriginal community, CSC is required to provide the community with an opportunity to propose a plan for the inmate's release and integration. Section 84 therefore encourages the participation of indigenous communities by requiring CSC to seek their input as part of the process.

How often do aboriginal communities take part in the planning for the release of the indigenous inmates to the community?

[Audra Andrews]

Do you want my honest answer?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes. That's why we're here.

[Audra Andrews]

Not very often. I've worked in the system a long time, and I think there's room for improvement in most of the quality of the section 84 releases. I can only comment on my experience, and I worked with the Parole Board prior to this. There were a lot more good-quality section 84 releases.

How often does that happen? I guess you'd have to ask the higher-ups for the stats, and I'm sure they'd provide them to you, but good section 84 releases take time and they're resource-driven.

There's also not a lot of knowledge, I think, among front-line parole officers as to how to go about doing that. There's protocol to be followed; you don't just phone or email. You should be going there in person, presenting protocol to the community, building relationships with the community, before you're asking them to accept an offender back. It takes time. It's resource-driven, and I think there's room to improve the expertise that goes along with a section 84 release.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

How often do the victims who might still be residing in these communities take part?

[Audra Andrews]

I can tell you from my personal experience that the victims are central to the process. I haven't done one in a long time. However, in my involvement, we would not release an offender to a community if there was risk to the victim, unless we actually....

Sorry, I'm getting lost here in my answer.

The victims are absolutely central to what we do in our work.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

The victims, then, would be notified were a dangerous offender to be released back into their community.

[Audra Andrews]

Yes. We have processes in place through the Parole Board of Canada and through our victims services division in CSC for them to provide input at the very earliest opportunity. They have to look at victim statements when we do a risk analysis on a case. If the victim has some involvement right from the outset, if they have registered as a victim, they will absolutely have input on that.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Is that provision in place for non-indigenous people as well?

[Audra Andrews]

It's for all victims.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Really.

[Audra Andrews]

Yes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

If somebody is let out on parole, the victims of their previous crime are supposed to be notified in advance.

[Audra Andrews]

Yes, if they've registered.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Is there room for improvement? Would it be prudent to make such consultations with the community, and specifically the victims, mandatory rather than relying upon, as you said, registration?

[Audra Andrews]

Do you mean in terms of consultation with the victims prior to release?

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Yes. I mean consultation specifically with the victims and making sure they're part of this consultation.

[Audra Andrews]

Going back to our culture and the way that it has always been in the aboriginal culture, it's about healing and getting back to that state of normalcy, I guess, for lack of a better word. It's difficult to answer. That's a good question for an elder to answer.

In our culture, it's about making things right again, and many times from the teachings that I have, obviously the victims would be part of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have a little less than one minute.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Would it be beneficial to have all victims notified prior to release, rather than depending upon these persons even knowing that a registry exists that they have to be part of if they want the heads-up?

[Zef Ordman]

Some victims don't want that. Some individuals don't want any connection at all. Some are very active in wanting to be informed and kept in the loop.