Evidence of meeting #83 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was offenders.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Senior Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
Yes, I do.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
Okay.
In terms of the young people, they're coming in with minor offenses and often leaving worse than when they came in. In terms of programming in our corrections facilities, we heard that programs were lumped in together so that there's one program. If you're a sex offender, you get the same program as someone who has mental health issues. Do you see a benefit to creating more programs, programs that are more targeted and culturally specific?
9:40 a.m.
Senior Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
Yes. If they're going to spend money on the programs, they need to focus on programs coming from the cultural perspective. They also have to look at indigenous program officers who can deliver the programs. That's very effective.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
How do we get more indigenous officers in there? What kind of schooling is required, and is there a need for some support from the government to ensure that people are able to take the time to get the schooling they need to become those officers?
9:40 a.m.
Senior Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
I would hope so. I do believe they need a degree now to become a correctional officer, so I'm not sure. A recruitment drive and things such as that do help. In my role, I do some speaking. I'm doing my master's degree in law and legal studies at Carleton University. I go to the classrooms and I speak about my experience and I talk about my profession.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Ms. Damoff and Ms. Miron.
Mr. Motz, you have the final question.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing this time with you at the very end.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
No problem.
I have just one question, Dr. Zinger, and it's a “why” question to what you reported. Ms. Miron, I'd like to hear your response as well.
Specific to indigenous people in federal corrections, you say they are released later in their sentences and they are disproportionately overrepresented in segregation, use-of-force interventions, and self-injurious incidents. As well, they're more likely to return to prison due to the suspension of their temporary releases or their paroles. Why?
9:40 a.m.
Senior Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
I can speak to one of them. Regarding the continuum of care that appears to be non-existent with CSC, I think that if there was a refocusing in terms of continuum of care, we would not see the numbers of revocations that we see now.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Glen Motz Conservative Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB
I'll just interrupt, if I can. When you refer to “continuum of care”, do you mean upon release?
9:40 a.m.
Senior Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
Yes. When they are leaving the institution, there should be some kind of connection to the community. This is what the indigenous inmates are having an issue with, because there is really no plan to go into the community.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
9:40 a.m.
Senior Investigator, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
Well, there is somewhat of a plan, but I don't think it's a very detailed plan in terms of release into the community. They do have to find employment or maybe go to school, and there is a shortage in community residential facilities. There is a lot of funding that isn't there. Yes, we have day parole housing, but there is a shortage of day parole houses. There are no healing lodges in Ontario. There are a lot of things that need to be looked at, and I think there needs to be a refocusing on returning to the elders' vision for the healing lodges in the community.
Just from my side of the house, I think they face a lot of racism in the institutions. Lots of times they are given waivers so they don't have to go to day parole. They are told to sign a form; they don't know what form they are signing, and they sign off their day parole eligibility date. That is why a lot of them have to stay beyond that eligibility date to reach their statutory release, and a lot of them are leaving on stat release.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Motz.
Before I let you go, it's not unprecedented but it is a bit unusual that there be a recommendation that a committee study a particular subject, and it's not unprecedented and not unusual that a minister write a letter asking us to do so. At this point, the committee is not undertaking to do so. Nevertheless, I imagine both you and the minister are quite persuasive on the direction of the committee.
In a very short intervention, could you be very directive as to what you wish to have the committee study when it comes to the conduct of a special study on inmate work and prison industries?
9:45 a.m.
Correctional Investigator of Canada, Office of the Correctional Investigator of Canada
Certainly, Mr. Chair.
Upon admission to federal penitentiaries, 60% of the inmates have an employment issue that requires some attention. We've talked about young people. When we conducted our study, what we found was that the majority of young people were not registered in programs or meaningful work. Most of the institutional work is a menial kind of work.
There is a prison industry called CORCAN, which has some good, well-equipped facilities with outstanding facilitators, but that involves less than 10% of the inmate population. When we look at women, for example, we see that they typically work only in stereotyped work, such as textiles, laundry, and sewing, and there are some pictures in my annual report to show these kinds of things.
Government after government has always thought that work would be useful for improving rehabilitation, that it would increase the skill level and then increase the likelihood of returning the person as a law-abiding citizen who is better equipped. I think work has to be significantly looked at, and this committee could certainly reflect on it and provide some guidance to the Correctional Service of Canada.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
With that, I want to thank Ms. Miron and Dr. Zinger. I expect we will be seeing you again. Thank you for your testimony, your work, and your service.
With that, we are suspended while we re-empanel.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
I call this committee back to order, please.
The meeting is now back in session. We have our witnesses here and I'm not sure who is going to be first. How about you, Ms. Andrews?
I'm going to reserve five minutes at the end of the committee hearing for committee business. With that, Ms. Andrews, are you first up?
9:55 a.m.
Representative, Union of Solicitor General Employees
I'm sorry if I'm a little nervous. I feel a little like a fish out of water.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Don't be nervous. It's actually the members who should be nervous, rather than you.
9:55 a.m.
Representative, Union of Solicitor General Employees
Good morning, and thank you for having me here.
I realize it is not often that a front-line staff member has this opportunity, so for that I am extremely grateful.
I am currently employed working in a women's supervision unit as the community parole officer. I have been employed with CSC, Correctional Service of Canada, in this role, with other assignments, for over 15 years. Prior to that I worked as a hearing assistant with the Parole Board of Canada in the elder-assisted hearing panels, and before that at an urban aboriginal organization in Edmonton.
I have worked with both males and females in the community. My duties include supervising offenders on conditional release. They also include, but are not limited to, case preparation for offenders in the community and in federal institutions.
I self-identify as Métis, and my background is similar in many ways to the offenders that I supervise. My grandparents attended residential schools, and without going into detail, my family has felt the intergenerational effects. While it does not make me a subject matter expert, I do believe it helps me to more fully understand the unique circumstances that indigenous offenders face. They are marginalized to a large extent, and by the time they enter the federal system, many of them come with complex needs that have been outlined in detail by previous witnesses.
A flexible approach is required, one that includes not only increasing in-house CSC interventions, which is helpful, but utilizing the services of aboriginal community service providers, such as counsellors and aboriginal substance abuse treatment providers, to fill in service gaps and help the offenders build a bridge back to their community. Although not privy to all the initiatives and actions proposed as a response to the reports of the correctional investigator and Auditor General, I sense that CSC takes this seriously, and there is a culture shift in progress. I hope that meaningful, ongoing consultation takes place, though, with front-line staff, especially with aboriginal staff.
We need to ensure that along with providing increased timely access to interventions while incarcerated, we need to provide the same in the community to increase offenders' chances for success on release and prevent a return to incarceration. An example of that is that access to elders and ceremonies should be facilitated by CSC to all indigenous offenders in the community, not only to those who are in healing lodges.
Perhaps another approach to be considered could be to look at supervision units in the community that are similar to Pathways units in the institutions to increase results for offenders on conditional release.
Relationships with our public safety partners, such as the Parole Board of Canada, are an important part of improving results for aboriginal offenders. More work needs to be done on educating offenders on elder-assisted hearings and building relationships with aboriginal communities by taking the process to them—for example, through community-assisted hearings.
Front-line staff in the institution and community are always up to the challenge put forth by our organization with regard to increasing results for indigenous offenders, but increased caseloads, increasingly complex needs of offenders, and increased expectations without resources attached will make our jobs even more difficult than they already are.
Retention and recruitment of aboriginal staff is also essential, but hiring processes are long and arduous and sometimes take years to finalize. This needs to be streamlined in order for CSC to be seen as an employer of choice with aboriginal people.
Classroom and online training is proposed to inform staff about Gladue principles and aboriginal social history as part of their response, but it also needs to include experiential training, such as with elders and with the communities we serve.
Training on the development of realistic and meaningful section 84 release plans will hopefully be incorporated for all parole officers. In addition, access to subject matter experts outside CSC would also be helpful to develop the skills of front-line staff in dealing with all offenders with complex needs.
Engagement of aboriginal communities earlier in the offender's sentence would also be helpful, as section 84 release plans take time to properly develop.
I want to stress that any changes that are proposed also need to take into account not just institutions: a creative approach and appropriate resources to manage offenders when they are on conditional release will also be required. Adequate preparation of an offender prior to release is also essential, such as ensuring offenders have appropriate identification, employment skills, program completion, and community supports. With these, any offenders, especially aboriginal offenders, are far more likely to succeed on their release.
In closing, I know how fortunate I am to be in the job, a job that I love, where I am witness to profound change, but at the same time believing that I contribute to the safety of the community.
A job in corrections is a difficult one. We work in the shadows, unseen for the most part by the public, dealing with danger and vicarious trauma.
I also believe in the mission of CSC and that keeping offenders accountable is not negated by treating them with compassion. Change is coming, but I believe it will take time.
10 a.m.
Zef Ordman Regional Vice-President, Union of Solicitor General Employees
Hi. My name is Zef Ordman. I started in Correctional Service Canada as a correctional officer, and then I became a parole officer. In that role, I also became a crisis negotiator and hostage negotiator inside the institution.
As for my experiences inside the federal institutions in Alberta, for the past three years I've been the regional vice-president for the union that represents about 50% of the staff inside the institutions in Alberta. I'm very familiar with all of the federal institutions in the province.
My colleague said she was a bit nervous. I am. I'm actually more comfortable in a room full of inmates.