Public Safety Committee on March 1st, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Picard, before I go to Mr. Calkins for five minutes, I just wanted to say to colleagues that my intention is to reserve approximately the final 10 minutes for clause by clause and a vote on the budget. I'm going to have two rounds, starting with Mr. Calkins, and then Ms. Dabrusin after that.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

My first question is for Mr. Dubeau.

Would it be fair to say that every one of our embassies or high commissions around the world would be staffed with an RCMP officer?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

No.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Would most of them be staffed with an RCMP officer?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

We have liaison officers in many of our areas. I would have to ask the federal police to provide the details of where they are and then we can provide that to committee.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I've travelled a little bit in my role as a parliamentarian, and virtually every embassy or high commission I've been to has an RCMP officer present who is responsible for security of the embassy and so on. That RCMP officer would be involved in the chain of command of the RCMP and not in the chain of command at the high commission or the embassy. Is that correct? However, they would have a working relationship in concert with the staff of Global Affairs. Is that correct? How would official communications happen between the RCMP officer at an embassy or high commission and the staff at Global Affairs? Would that all be well-documented?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

My forte is police operations on the federal side. I would have to come back to you on that and actually ask my deputy to provide you with the details.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

That's no problem.

Of course when the Prime Minister is not on the Hill or in the parliamentary precinct, the RCMP is responsible for the security and safety of the Prime Minister; is that correct?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Yes, that's correct.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Of course those RCMP would also fall within the command and control structure of the entire RCMP organization.

Could you expand to this committee what the nature of the relationship would be between the RCMP officers that may be posted at an embassy or a high commission and the RCMP officers who are assigned to the safety and security of the Prime Minister when the Prime Minister is travelling abroad?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

That's where you get the integrated approach, where one of our liaison officers would be part of our chain of command. When we know our Prime Minister will be going to a certain area, that is one of the points of contact that we have. That individual not only works with the embassy and Global Affairs, but also with the local authorities to understand what's happening on the ground. That information would be fed back to our national headquarters to assist with our planning process. It would be fed back to our policing operations and our protective detail to ensure that we have the right posture on the ground.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

If anything were found or flagged by Global Affairs, CSIS, or whatever the case may be, what would be the criteria by which something would be sent to the national security adviser?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

At this point you're asking me to go into [Inaudible-Editor]. I can't be specific.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I understand.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

As soon as we'd notice any type of issue, we would then brief up accordingly. We would brief up accordingly as soon as.... [Inaudible] point, as soon as we'd find that there's an issue there, we would brief up.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Is there any scenario in which briefing up would stop within the confines of the RCMP and not get to the national security adviser?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

From my best recollection of my briefings, we would brief up when appropriate.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Ms. Robertson, as an agency, CSIS is confined to doing its operations within Canada, of course, and sharing intelligence with our allies around the world. Without giving away any secrets, would it be fair to say that from time to time CSIS agents do travel to our high commissioners or embassies around the world? If you can't answer the question, I'm fine with that.

[Charles Lowson]

For operational reasons, I would prefer not to.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

That's fine. I don't want to put anybody at any risk, and I certainly don't want to do anything to jeopardize the national security of our country.

Could you expand to me, then, at what point a relationship with the RCMP in the sharing of information—without sharing the information...how that would work if an RCMP officer, for example, at a high commission or embassy would receive information from CSIS and vice versa if something were to be flagged? How would that happen?

[Charles Lowson]

As part of its mandate, CSIS provides security-related advice to the Government of Canada, to various departments. That would include the Department of Foreign Affairs or Global Affairs Canada. That process would involve that information being passed on to Global Affairs Canada, and then the contact with their representatives abroad would happen with Global Affairs Canada.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Would it be fair and reasonable to say that the agency, CSIS, would, from time to time, share information with Global Affairs Canada that they wouldn't share with the RCMP?

[Charles Lowson]

It would depend on the nature of the information.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

So it's situational.

[Charles Lowson]

It's case by case, yes.