Evidence of meeting #99 for Public Safety and National Security in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Commissioner Daniel Dubeau  Acting Commissioner, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
John Ossowski  President, Canada Border Services Agency
Malcolm Brown  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Dennis Watters  Chief Financial and Administrative Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Jacques Cloutier  Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Anne Kelly  Interim Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Charles Lowson  Assistant Director, Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service

12:20 p.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

John Ossowski

Thank you for the question.

Yes, the budget has proposed some additional funding for us to help manage regular migration along with all of the partners to assist with that, so for us it's really about how we apply our resources, particularly at Roxham Road at the Lacolle border crossing to manage that sort of major thoroughfare, if you will.

We are looking forward to having access to those funds to help us continue to manage this.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Do you have measures in place to control this? Right now, you don't actually have any control over people who decide to come to Canada. Will you establish a permanent port of entry at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle? A lot of infrastructure has been built. I don't think the intent is to make this a permanent port of entry because of the Canada-U.S. Safe Third Country Agreement.

What is your take on this? Is there an end in sight? What is your vision?

12:20 p.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

John Ossowski

Thank you for the question.

No, there is no intention to turn Lacolle into a permanent port of entry. As you may be aware, the RCMP is responsible for patrolling the border in between ports of entry. We are there, co-located with them, to help manage the influx of asylum seekers. They are then brought to the port at Lacolle for further processing because before anybody is released we go through a full security screening process to make sure there is no risk and determine their admissibility to come to Canada.

Through consistent practice over the last year and beyond, we have a pretty smooth-running machine in terms of managing the volumes right now.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

We have learned that it usually takes at least eight hours to do a security check on someone who crosses the border. Given the influx of arrivals, as was the case in August and in September of last year, the turnaround time was reduced to a maximum of one or two hours.

Will the funds provided in the supplementary estimates help you improve your security screening capacity and take the time to do things properly?

12:20 p.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

John Ossowski

We've constantly refined our processing with partners, including Immigration, Refugee and Citizenship Canada, the RCMP, and others. Perhaps, to give you more detail, I could turn to Jacques Cloutier, who is my vice-president of operations and has been deeply involved in this.

12:20 p.m.

Jacques Cloutier Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

With pleasure.

Thank you for your question. I would just like to say at the outset that we have in no way reduced our security measures.

The time frame that you referred to is for risk and threat assessment, a security process that takes place immediately after the screening done by the RCMP which can also take a few hours, before we effectively take control of the person. What has changed in the process is the second part: evaluating the screening results and eligibility.

That part of the process is suspended, to be finished later outside of Lacolle. It still takes from five to six hours; nothing has changed there. The focus is on the security of Canadians as well as asylum seekers. That said, we have not reduced security controls at all.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

According to information that I have here, a good percentage of asylum seekers who have been told, after screening, that they are ineligible for asylum and that they will be deported to their country, actually escape and get lost.

Can you tell us the exact percentage of asylum seekers and tell us what measures could be used to avoid this kind of situation?

12:20 p.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

John Ossowski

I'm not aware of anybody escaping or getting lost.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

According to the information that I am referring to, at least 10% of those who came to Canada and who were denied asylum decided to not go to the second interview and just disappeared. You must surely have some information on that.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

About a half a minute.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Perhaps I should ask the witnesses from the RCMP.

12:25 p.m.

Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

Jacques Cloutier

There is a distinction to be made here. You are speaking about people who do not show up for their interview with us, at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or the Immigration Refugee Board of Canada. These persons have already undergone security screening and are released under certain conditions, one of which is to attend an interview so that the process may continue. Those are people in whom we have a certain degree of confidence as to the risk they present.

After a request has been made, those persons receive a conditional referral which depends on our findings. Their names will be added to a register for follow-up and we do indeed make an effort to find them.

To put things in context, we are not talking about persons that we have determined, after studying their file, to present an immediate risk to Canadians.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

Mr. Dubé, seven minutes, please.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For CSC I had a question about the ion scanner issue that has been before this committee. We had Mothers Offering Mutual Support and others testify. There was word of a report that was supposed to come out in January. I don't know if that report exists or it just hasn't been made public yet. I don't know if we can get an update on that.

12:25 p.m.

Anne Kelly Interim Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Yes, actually. There was a review that was conducted to assess the use of ion scanners and their reliability. As part of the review the validity of the tool was confirmed and we identified areas that required enhancements. There was a bulletin that was issued in October of 2017. As you know, the ion scanner is only one piece of information. It's to actually be able to detect trace amounts of drugs. Even if you test positive on the ion scanner then there has to be another assessment.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

I understand that.

I apologize for interrupting you, but my time is limited. I'm a little confused by that response because the bulletin was in October and you're saying that the review has determined the validity. Is there a report that we can have access to that would demonstrate that? That's what I was referred to by the minister in his response to a petition I tabled in the House.

12:25 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

What I have is that that was a recommendation that was made by the office of the correctional investigator. A letter has been provided to his office outlining what the results of the review were.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Can there be an undertaking to provide those results to the committee?

12:25 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

Absolutely.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Thank you.

My other question is about solitary confinement and Bill C-56.

The government has decided to appeal the British Columbia court ruling. I know that you can't comment on the case, but is the department thinking about changing its legislative approach? Do you know if there will be a delay before we are able to have a debate on the bill in the House? Perhaps you are not in a position to answer the question.

12:25 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Malcolm Brown

I think in consultation with Correctional Services, the government determined that as a result of essentially two decisions, one in Ontario and one in B.C., there was a requirement to clarify, because in some ways the two court decisions take different positions. That's the basis of the decision to make the appeal.

In terms of further legislative change, I would say that the government continues to assess the situation really carefully and is continually looking at ways to improve the legislative framework around administrative segregation.

I'll let Anne jump in if she wants to add anything.

12:25 p.m.

Interim Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

Certainly for us at CSC it's something we constantly look at. As you know, a number of measures were put in place. In particular, as the senior deputy commissioner, I chaired the long-term segregation, or “seg”, committee. We reviewed the cases of certain offenders who had spent so many days in seg or who had cumulative placements in seg or a certain number of cumulative days.

Certainly all the regional deputy commissioners or assistant deputy commissioners are involved. We have full discussions on each of the cases to see what alternatives exist to alleviate their seg status.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

Thank you.

The budget includes funding for pre-clearance lanes at Jean Lesage airport. I am not sure if Mr. Brown or the people from CBSA can answer my question. Will the funds cover the cost of the lanes or will airport authorities be asked to foot part of the bill?

12:30 p.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

John Ossowski

The way it's currently structured for pre-clearance is that it's a cost-recover kind of situation. If the airports want to pursue a pre-clearance approach, then they have to pay for those services.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Dubé NDP Beloeil—Chambly, QC

In that case, money appeared in the budget; so what's that money for, then?