Public Safety Committee on March 1st, 2018

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

[Inaudible].

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

[Inaudible].

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm going to interrupt you both and say that we are at the public safety committee, not the international relations committee.

Mr. Motz, you have about a minute left. Perhaps you could, again, tie your question somehow or other to estimates rather than to what goes on in India.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Well, I mean this is to me all related. The government has given us a budget for 2018 and I think it's open for debate, for conversation about the contents of that budget and public safety and national security is certainly part of that. When a country is accused of doing something that they are denying and we are perpetrating that theory I would think that there could be considerable amount of energy and effort in resources placed on following up on fixing whatever has been already damaged. I'm just kind of curious to know whether the Indian government has reached out to you, to our department, to our government, and to the responsible departments with respect to the Atwal affair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Very briefly.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The diplomatic, security, and international affairs relationship between Canada and a whole range of other countries, including India, is large, dynamic, and intricate. Communications are going back and forth in a very constructive way all the time. I am unaware of any particular security communication over the course of the last number of days, but Canada has a very strong relationship with allies and partners all over the world and we work very hard to maintain it. When Canadian public servants provide information and advice, they do so with one thing in mind: what is best for the national interests of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

The minister's idea of “briefly” and mine seem to be divergent.

Ms. Dabrusin, you have the final five minutes. We started a little late, so we'll finish with you.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Wonderful. Thank you.

Minister, I raised this in the House in question period once, and it's an issue that has been very important to many people in my community: the redress system and the passenger protect program. I was hoping perhaps you could help me with what the expected timelines might be for some changes to the passenger protect system.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Ms. Dabrusin, it is a complex process, but we're going through it step by step. The legislative changes are before Parliament right now, then come the regulations and then come rebuilding the computer system. Work will start this year, but it will take perhaps three years before it's fully implemented. It's something we want to make steady progress on every month going forward.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

You would actually have been asked a question earlier about the RCMP and you started talking about how the RCMP would be dealing with unfounded cases, which is something that's been the subject of quite a bit of scrutiny and I was hoping perhaps you could give us a better sense of what it will be the RCMP is doing. What is the funding in the budget going to do to help address those unfounded cases?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

When this issue burst on to the public domain some months ago, I was encouraged by the way a number of police forces responded to say this category of unfounded was too large and we had to get to the bottom of it and find a better way of dealing with this whole issue. Because no one who has been subject to sexual violence should feel in any way inhibited or limited in their ability to come forward, to be respected, to be treated in a serious manner and not just brushed aside.

Various police forces looked at how they were doing things and they looked for international experience to how they might improve their conduct and their procedures and so forth. The RCMP has been particularly proactive and there is additional money now in the budget to assist them in the work of making sure that all of this previous activity is properly analysed and that the right kind of procedures are put in place for the future so that there can be perhaps different kind of reporting protocols, different ways in which the statistics are presented so that no one has the sense or the reality of having been brushed aside.

Because I think this is the last answer and perhaps Dan Dubeau's last opportunity, let me just ask the acting commissioner to make some observations on how the force has responded to this.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Thank you, Minister.

The force responded as the minister said. At the first instance we pulled in the one-year files. We did a review of all of our files. We had all our divisions actually reach into every one of the files that we had marked as “unfounded” to make sure the investigations were done properly; to make sure that when we did have one of the victims come forward, that we treated them with respect. Based on that, we were able to analyze that some of them were just reported as “unfounded”. But where we thought there were gaps—and this is from Ottawa, too, where we had an overview of this—we actually asked that they be looked at again and reopened. We reached back out to the victim to make sure that we actually had done the full investigation—several of those investigations are still ongoing on those files—to make sure that we did treat the individuals with respect.

We're also incorporating some training around that and how we approach our cases and how we approach our victims so that we can understand that it's a traumatic event for anybody. We approach them with the respect and courtesy that they need as they come forward.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I want to thank you for that because it's a training piece to me on a going-forward basis so that we don't keep perpetuating this problem. It's essential. I'm happy to see that and I would love to hear more as we move along with that project.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Some really interesting ideas have been forthcoming from the discussion. For example, are there ways of providing reporting avenues or mechanisms that don't involve a formal police procedure? Is there a way that you can better collect the data by providing alternative methods of reporting. Or in the way you report the data, is it founded or unfounded? Do you need a third category that says “founded, but not yet proven according to evidentiary standards”, and so forth, so that someone just doesn't automatically fall into the unfounded category because you don't have an answer yet?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you—

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

There are various ways we have to look at this, but I'm pleased with the momentum that has built up across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Ms. Dabrusin.

Thank you, Minister, for your fulsome answers.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm just about to suspend. Do you want to before the suspension?

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Yes.

Mr. Goodale, you have been in politics for a long time and I have tremendous respect for you. I imagine that you are quite embarrassed by the Prime Minister's behaviour this week in the Atwal affair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

If that was a point of order, it was to be addressed to me, not to you.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I rose on a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I don't see it as a point of order, hence we'll suspend for a couple of minutes to let the minister leave.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay, we're back in session.

I'm going to work on the assumption that Deputy Minister Brown has no opening statement to make, and so we will proceed to questioning.

The first is Monsieur Picard, who's not here.

We will then go to Mr. Spengemann.

[Sven Spengemann, Liberal, Mississauga—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for remaining with us.

I wanted to begin by circling back to a comment by the minister earlier, in which he wanted to give you, Mr. Dubeau, the opportunity to speak about the cultural competency training, and to elaborate a little bit more on that in the context of reconciliation. I'm wondering if we could start by asking you to do that.