Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was risk.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Bensimon  Criminologist, As an Individual
Dave Blackburn  Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
Catherine Latimer  Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

Mr. Chairman, at the outset of his testimony, the witness himself alluded to his partisan affiliation. It contextualized the testimony, too.

Mr. Blackburn, in December, you mentioned that Mr. Pierre Poilievre was your political mentor. Is that correct?

9:45 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

That's correct.

I'd like to clarify one thing. The majority of the events occurred in 2017. I was not a candidate for any political party at that time.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I've asked you a question, Mr. Blackburn, and I encourage you to answer it.

Is that right?

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

Yes, I'll answer, but the question has to be...

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Chair, I would like to speak.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Yes.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

I'm concerned about my colleague Mr. Lightbound's question. It's not relevant.

Mr. Blackburn has been a professional all his life and has worked as a board member. He was not involved in politics at that time. My colleague is playing petty politics that have nothing to do with our purposes here.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I was getting to my question.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Chair, I demand that we stop asking political questions immediately, because if we don't, we'll do the same thing.

We have questions about the Liberal selection list that was put together by people in the Privy Council Office.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Gagan Sikand Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON

I have a point of order. That's a—

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Let's stop immediately, please.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

I just caution members here. The subject matter that is referred to us is the tragic death of a young woman, and it ill behooves any of us to have partisan issues.

If Mr. Lightbound wants to ask a question that is a partisan question, he's entitled to, as is Mr. Paul-Hus, as is anyone else, but the terms of reference and the subject matter that bring us here have nothing, I would say, to do with partisan affiliations by anyone.

With that, I'm not going to restrict Mr. Lightbound from asking any question he wishes, but those are the comments of the chair.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

Mr. Chair, I couldn't agree with you more, and I'm sorry it's come to this.

Mr. Blackburn's testimony appeared to me to be tinged with partisanship. It's important to know where he came from, given that kind of testimony.

Mr. Blackburn, do you agree with me that favouritism is unacceptable at the parole board?

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

I agree with you.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

You mentioned it in your testimony. I'm not going to go back on that, rest assured.

However, six of the nine full-time board members were candidates, spouses of candidates, or chiefs of staff in the previous government. Across the country, 43 appointments were similar. This may suggest that there was some favouritism.

However, we agree on one thing: the important thing is that the selection of board members be based on merit. You referred to your past experience. What are your reservations about the experience of board members Lainé and Fortin? We're talking about a former provincial board member as well as a former parole officer and former board member.

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

I have absolutely nothing against them. I don't even know them particularly well. They were appointed and then...

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

In your testimony, in response to a question from Mr. Paul-Hus, you referred to their past experience. You said that the past experience of the board members should be considered, and you referred to your own. What are your reservations with regard to the experience of the two members you directly involved, who made the decision?

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

I have no reservations. When they were assessed during the appointment process, I imagine that they met certain criteria.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

When you were a part-time member of the Parole Board, you made fewer decisions than those two members. However, you testified that the cases still needed to be handled properly.

In your opinion, did the Parole Board fail to make proper decisions in any other cases?

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

I'll start by stating once again that quantity isn't the key factor. Quality is key. I brought this, which is a medal that I received for the quality of my decisions.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

Okay.

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

I also have a letter from your former colleague, Ralph Goodale.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I'm not questioning your ability as a member—

9:50 a.m.

Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual

Dave Blackburn

No, but it should be mentioned. It's not about the quantity, but about the quality of the decisions. For example, for a member, the number of cases under appeal can be an issue.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

When you say that the cases must still be handled properly, do you have any examples of mishandled cases? Do you have any evidence of cases that you think were poorly handled and mismanaged?