Evidence of meeting #5 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was risk.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Philippe Bensimon  Criminologist, As an Individual
Dave Blackburn  Former Member at Parole Board of Canada, As an Individual
Catherine Latimer  Executive Director, John Howard Society of Canada

10:10 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

I'd have a hard time answering that question at this point. I'd rather abstain for the time being.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Okay. That's fine.

Can you explain the case management team's strategy of authorizing sexual relations with vulnerable people? I'm thinking specifically here, obviously, of the case of Monsieur Gallese.

10:10 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

In the case at hand, it's rare, but it's not a first.

Whether you're an inmate or a person who frequents massage parlours and prostitutes or any person here in the room, this constitutes a criminal act. It's very simple. This issue doesn't concern an inmate any more than it concerns the average person. The act is illegal. This is set out in section 286 of the Criminal Code.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Okay.

The president of the Correctional Service declared that violent incidences after release are very rare. Is this true?

Can you comment on that?

Murders might be rare, but are there also many cases of sexual assaults? Can you comment on that, please?

10:10 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

Yes.

Fortunately, they don't happen often. As I said earlier, the Correctional Service released a report that I signed. On average, just over eight inmates a year commit murder while on parole in the community.

I've given some examples, and you can look up the information in the archives. I calculated that 83 murderers reoffended over a 10-year period. Of those 83 inmates, 10 had already committed a murder while on supervised release. So there have been 10 cases comparable to Mr. Gallese's case in 10 years. That's one case per year. This isn't very rare.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Thank you.

Do you have any statistics on rape?

10:10 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Do you have any statistics on rape?

10:10 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

Would you like me to answer you with respect to recidivism?

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Yes.

10:10 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

We could talk about recidivism for hours.

Each year in Canada, there are on average over 630,000 sexual assaults, according to Statistics Canada, which conducted the general social survey on victimization. There aren't 630,000 inmates in prison for sexual assault. The sex offender population in penitentiaries doesn't exceed 15%. It's minimal.

Just to give you an idea, in 2016 -17, 21,000 cases of sexual assault were reported to the various police forces. There's 33%—

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

Sorry, Mr. Bensimon. My time is almost up.

I have another question.

Are the risk assessment programs in the Correctional Service effective?

10:15 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

Sorry. I don't want to make a language error and the interpretation service isn't working.

What are you asking me?

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Marc Dalton Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC

There's a risk assessment program in the Correctional Service.

Is it effective?

10:15 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

It all depends on the inmate. Does the inmate really want to take charge of their life? I already addressed this issue earlier.

Is this what we're talking about?

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

We're talking about the risk assessment grid.

10:15 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

The risk assessment grid is like any other tool. It can be completed in good conscience. However, does it represent the profile of the subject?

Remember that, in a prison environment, we're dealing with a population that operates on a strictly voluntary basis.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

Okay.

Sorry, Mr. Bensimon.

10:15 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

This issue would require a little more than three minutes, Mr. Chair.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal John McKay

We're going to have to leave it there.

Mr. Trudel, you have two and a half minutes, please.

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Bensimon.

It seems that, in the case at hand, there may have been an issue with the halfway house where Mr. Gallese stayed prior to the events in question.

Mr. Bensimon, do you have any idea why he was placed in that “bad” halfway house?

10:15 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

I said this earlier, Mr. Trudel, but you weren't here. There's no such thing as a bad halfway house. However, certain types of halfway houses have certain structures that are much more appropriate for serious cases.

Why was he sent to a CRF? Maybe there wasn't enough room, because there aren't enough community correctional centres, or CCCs, which are halfway houses under federal jurisdiction. I repeat: there are no bad houses. However, we don't send inmates who have a serious record or who have been convicted of murder to a CRF.

This has always been done, but it's a monetary issue. It costs less to send an inmate to a CRF than to a CCC. The staff aren't paid the same at all. It's a budget issue and it always has been.

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Are you saying that he was sent to that house for budget reasons rather than to another house that would have been more appropriate?

10:15 a.m.

Criminologist, As an Individual

Dr. Philippe Bensimon

If he had been sent to a community correctional centre, which is under federal jurisdiction, it would have cost more, yes. These structures aren't the same at all. We can't compare a CCC and a CRF. It's day and night.

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

If he had stayed in the house that you say was more appropriate, could these events have been prevented?