Public Safety Committee on March 10th, 2021

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I have no concerns about having proper protection, particularly for the variants of concern. We've had an outbreak in Newfoundland and Labrador. It ran like wildfire. We've had community spread for the first time, so I'm very concerned about that. But I'm also very concerned about the safety of individuals.

Dr. Kochhar, is there any plan to adopt the proposal that Dr. Bogoch said, about making sure all of them—and there appears to be lots of them who are travelling back and forth across the U.S.-Canada border—are going to be given, as a priority, an expectation that they could have a vaccine as soon as possible? Is that part of the plan to protect Canadians?

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Again, I would say that we're working closely with an independent body, the NACI, which is the national body on immunization, which actually dictates who the priority groups are. We are working very closely with them to identify if there is a possibility that those essential workers, frontline workers, who are crossing...can be prioritized. But this is something that is in the hands of the provinces and territories. A lot of work is going on in terms of making sure those aspects are brought forward as such.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

The Government of Canada is responsible for the borders, Doctor, and I understand the provinces are dealing with vaccines. If the borders are being controlled by the Canada Border Services and the Government of Canada, surely a mandate for people who are crossing back and forth all the time, potentially bringing in the variants or COVID-19.... There are thousands of them crossing every day in Detroit and Windsor, essential workers working on one side and living on the other. Is there any thought being given, or would you be prepared to promote making sure that essential workers who are travelling back and forth on a regular basis could expect to be given a vaccine as part of the border-crossing initiatives?

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Mr. Chair, what I can say clearly is these conversations are very live and ongoing. I'm not particularly involved in that component, but there are very much ongoing and alive conversations on that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Can I urge you to bring to their attention Dr. Bogoch's recommendation here this evening?

It seems to me to be a very simple and logical extension of the types of protections we're talking about here: the quarantine, the hotel quarantine, the 14-day quarantine, only essential workers allowed to go come back and forth. Surely we can ask them to have a little extra protection that is going to protect them and protect the rest of us.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Harris now knows that was six minutes and one second.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I ended with a comment, sir, not a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes. That's amazing.

With that, we've completed round one.

Round two is five-minute questions. We're starting off with Mr. Kurek, please.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for making yourselves available here today.

It's my understanding that the Public Health Agency of Canada issues the exemption letters declaring that an individual performs essential work, yet the CBSA has the ability to overturn or make a determination about whether somebody's work is or is not essential.

Can the CBSA clarify whether their agents are, in fact, given that authority?

[Denis Vinette]

I'd be happy to begin, but my colleague, Mr. Christiansen, can jump in as well.

I think the first thing I need to make sure is very clear is that our officers have very little discretion in the actual decision-making or application of the orders in council as they've been drafted, or the chief public health officer's exemptions that are also in play as it pertains to whether individuals get directed into quarantine or not.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

If I could follow up on that, you're saying there's very little input that the CBSA had in regard to what these exemptions do or do not look like.

Is training or guidance provided to officers to ensure that they are equipped to properly make these determinations?

[Denis Vinette]

Yes, absolutely, and I'll ask Mr. Christiansen to jump in.

I will just add that it's very clear that the decisions they render are based on the information presented to them by the traveller at the time they arrive. That is ultimately what leads to the decision by the officer at the port of entry.

Calvin, I'll pass it over to you.

[Calvin Christiansen, Director General, Travellers Operational Guidance and Support, Travellers Branch, Canada Border Services Agency]

Thank you very much.

There are a couple of things we do any time the orders in council come out. We put together an information package for our border services officers. We go through it with all our regional operations before it's issued, to walk through what the process is and what the exceptions are, to make sure that everyone is delivering from the same page.

What happens on some occasions and what we've seen happen is that when a traveller is coming back into Canada or when a traveller is coming into Canada for the first time, they aren't necessarily always telling the full and whole story to the border services officers, so the border services officers—

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

I appreciate that, but I have an example of a constituent who got off an airplane with a co-worker, with virtually the same paperwork, and one ended up having to go into a hotel quarantine and one did not. I think there's a great deal of concern and confusion. This led to multiple points of contact and possible COVID transmission because his wife was going to pick him up from the airport. Therefore, I'm really looking for where the direction comes from to ensure that these rules are applied equitably, clearly and concisely.

Am I understanding that it's the Public Health Agency of Canada that gives packages to CBSA, and then CBSA is responsible for enforcing it?

[Calvin Christiansen]

What happens is that the order in council is written, and once the order in council is finalized, we go through that order in council and look at the structure of it and what's involved in it. We prepare guidance to give to our officers in the field, with the Public Health Agency of Canada to make sure that we're on the right page and taking the right approach to each of those orders in council. We issue that out to our field operations slightly in advance.

We do really attempt to make sure that we're as consistent as we possibly can be, and these inconsistencies will happen when sometimes the whole story isn't given by one traveller or the other.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

There's an alleged victim who says that her passport was taken away before she was sent to one of these quarantine facilities. Who would have taken that passport and under what authority?

[Calvin Christiansen]

Mr. Chair, the first I heard of a passport being taken away was earlier today, so I'm not particularly familiar with that case and the incident that surrounds it.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

If that information could be provided to the committee, certainly that would be helpful.

Mr. Chair, if there's time, I would ask the Public Health Agency of Canada whether they ever made a recommendation to either the minister or the deputy minister to suggest that the hotel quarantine was a positive step to control the spread of COVID in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Very briefly, please.

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Mr. Chair, if I understand the question correctly, we have been watching, as I mentioned earlier, the variants of concern and the transmissibility. The nature of the transmission and the variants prompted us to look at that as a possible measure to reduce the risk of importing those variants.

[Damien Kurek, Conservative, Battle River—Crowfoot, AB]

When was that recommendation first made?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

That is, unfortunately, your time.

There is usually some rule about communications between senior members of the civil service and their ministers, but regardless, we're out of time.

With that, Mr. Iacono, you have five minutes, please.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank all the speakers here today for coming to answer our questions.

My first question is for Mr. Rupa.

Mr. Rupa, how would you describe the RCMP's involvement in enforcing the Quarantine Act?

Specifically, is it acting as a primary oversight agency or is it playing a supporting role?

[Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar]

Mr. Chair, if I may, the RCMP and the other members of police forces at the local jurisdiction all have been very good partners with the Public Health Agency of Canada in terms of ensuring that there is compliance.

At the front end, we have the CBSA officers working with us, and the Public Health Agency of Canada quarantine officers are at the airport, for example. There's also the ability for us to refer these cases which may be non-compliant to RCMP, which assists us in making sure that they are brought in compliance.

We continue to work in those areas where RCMP has jurisdiction, and maybe my colleague from the RCMP can describe how that happens in terms of the partnership. However, that's what we engage in from the very beginning.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for the Canada Border Services Agency officials.

The safety of the Agency's permanent or contracted employees is also an extremely important issue, as they are on the front lines.

Can you tell us about the safety and health protocols for them?