Public Safety Committee on June 16th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I call to order the 36th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and a motion that we adopted on Wednesday, June 9, the committee is resuming its study on ideologically motivated violent extremism. Later this afternoon we have some committee business that will be in camera.

We're fortunate today. I appreciate the understanding of both sets of witnesses, that they're able to appear with us together.

From the National Council of Canadian Muslims, we have Mustafa Farooq, chief executive officer, and Sameha Omer, director of legal affairs. From the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, we have Shimon Koffler Fogel, president and chief executive officer.

Again, I thank both groups for agreeing to appear. We look forward to your opening statements of seven minutes each.

With that, I'll turn to the National Council of Canadian Muslims.

[Mustafa Farooq, Chief Executive Officer, National Council of Canadian Muslims]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for providing us the opportunity to offer our thoughts on your study of ideologically motivated violent extremism in the aftermath of the London terror attack.

My name is Mustafa Farooq. I am a lawyer and the CEO of the National Council of Canadian Muslims. I'm joined today by my colleague Sameha Omer, the director of legal affairs for the council.

By way of background, NCCM was founded as an independent, non-partisan and non-profit grassroots organization dedicated to defending the human rights and civil liberties of Muslim communities living in Canada. For almost two decades, we have been a leading voice in the promotion of human rights in Canada, working tirelessly in the areas of community education and outreach, media engagement and public advocacy, and challenging discrimination and Islamophobia.

With the independently documented rise in hate, racism and Islamophobia faced by our communities, we are here today because we are greatly concerned about public safety. I think this came to a clear head for me personally when over the weekend I introduced members of the Quebec City mosque to members of the London Muslim community at the funeral of the Afzaal family, and then drove back to Toronto to try to attend a vigil at the IMO mosque in Etobicoke.

The reality is that something has gone terribly wrong in this country. The reality is that while I was preparing for this committee last night, I was also at the IIT, the Islamic Institute of Toronto, after two individuals yesterday threatened to bomb the centre after attempting to break in. We were also reaching out to a Black Muslim woman allegedly assaulted in Edmonton. We were also in conversation with the Baitul Hadi centre in Edmonton, which had a swastika drawn on it.

On the evening of January 29, an armed male entered the CCIQ in Quebec. He gunned down six Muslim worshippers and injured several more in a terrorist attack targeting a masjid and the Muslims inside it. The victims were Ibrahima Barry, Azzedine Soufiane, Aboubaker Thabti, Khaled Belkacemi, Mamadou Tanou Barry and Abdelkarim Hassane. In an instance of hate and violence, their earthly presence was taken from us in what remains the worst attack on a house of worship on Canadian soil in modern history.

On the evening of September 12, 2020, a man with alleged links to a white supremacist group, the O9A, walked onto the parking lot of the IMO mosque in Etobicoke and slit the throat of Mohamed-Aslim Zafis. I saw his body that night in the parking lot—even as I had met him that year handing out food to the poor in the worst of the COVID-19 epidemic.

On June 7 a family was run down in London by an accused with alleged hate-based motivations. Terrorism charges have now been brought against the accused. I will read the names of the deceased into the record: Salman Afzaal and his mother, his wife Madiha Salman, and their daughter Yumna. Before leaving London, I met the young child, the sole survivor of the attack. I don't really have words to fully describe what that meant.

We are here today because white supremacist, violent Islamophobic, neo-Nazi and alt-right groups are growing precipitously. They're becoming bolder, whether it's groups like the Soldiers of Odin surveilling a mosque in B.C., a group calling itself “The Clann” intimidating worshippers at Canada's oldest mosque in Edmonton, groups like La Meute in Quebec, or the groups that are now planning celebrations of the London terror attack in Ontario. This list excludes all the other things I was dealing with yesterday. Amongst others, in Calgary a woman wearing a burka was allegedly accosted. As my colleague Sameha can tell you, this is pretty much a consistent occurrence for us. We get these calls 365 days a year.

My submissions before you today are squarely around how we can dismantle white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups that first act as a major source of incitement and enabling of hate, xenophobia and violence against certain segments of the public, including members of the Muslim community. I will also note that our colleagues who join us today from CIJA, in tandem with dozens of leading Canadian organizations, joined with us last year in our call for more action on white supremacist groups,

In the interest of time, I'll dive right into the recommendations that we want to highlight before this committee. These key recommendations and approaches are ones that we will further discuss at the National Action Summit on Islamophobia, which I appreciate also had important bipartisan support. From our perspective, these need to be undertaken in order to dismantle the immediate challenges around white supremacist groups in Canada.

First of all, we believe that existing Criminal Code provisions, especially the terror-listing provisions of the ATA and section 70 of the Criminal Code, should be used to dismantle groups like the Three Percenters. Even as this government utilized current legislative options in dismantling white supremacist groups, such as Blood & Honour, Combat 18, the Proud Boys, we believe that the tools already exist in the Criminal Code to list terrorist groups and to disband militias. These provisions need to be used to deal with the other 250-plus white supremacist organizations in Canada.

Section 70 of the Criminal Code, for instance, deals with prohibiting assemblies of persons for the purpose of “training or drilling themselves”, “being trained or drilled to the use of [firearms]” or “practising military exercises”. This could be used to prevent the actions of groups and the mobilization of groups like the Three Percenters. When we're talking about ideologically motivated violent extremism, we need to recognize that there are already existing provisions in the Criminal Code that can be used to dismantle some of these groups.

Secondly, we recommend the addition of new legislative listing provisions to the Criminal Code that specifically list white supremacist groups as white supremacist groups. Groups like the Soldiers of Odin may not meet the high threshold of being a listed terrorist entity and are not a militia, but these groups provide significant threats to Canadian Muslim communities. Like the organization that is planning on hosting a celebration of the London terror attack, there's no reason for these groups to be allowed to continue to exist, congregate, mobilize, plan their hate in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Farooq, can you wind up, please?

[Mustafa Farooq]

Absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

[Mustafa Farooq]

Thirdly, I think we need to see robust online hate regulation that is balanced and that ensures the protection of civil liberties through consultation with the best experts in Canada and internationally.

Lastly, we'd like to see a review on how national security agencies have been dealing with neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups.

I also note that we will be providing a brief and follow-up to expand further on the recommendations.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Mr. Fogel, you have seven minutes, please.

[Shimon Koffler Fogel, President and Chief Executive Officer, Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, along with the members of the committee, for inviting our participation in this important discussion. My name is Shimon Fogel. I'm the president and CEO of the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs, the advocacy agent of the Jewish federations across Canada. We're a national non-partisan, non-profit organization representing more than 150,000 Jewish Canadians affiliated through Jewish federations from coast to coast. Our mission is to preserve and protect the quality of Jewish life in Canada through advocacy.

For Canada's Jewish community, the conversation about ideologically motivated violent extremism is inextricably linked with anti-Semitism. As I speak, Jewish Canadians are facing a dangerous rise in anti-Semitism across the country, and indeed, around the world. The UJA Federation of Greater Toronto, an organization that closely monitors the security situation of the Jewish community in the GTA, reported a fivefold spike in anti-Semitic incidents last month compared to previous months this year. In May, individuals who attended a peaceful pro-Israel rally in Montreal were pelted with rocks. Police seized weapons and made 15 arrests, including for armed assault. In April in Victoria, the words “Kill the Jews” and “Gas the Jews” were spray painted on a Jewish community institution. We too observed swastikas and Nazi symbols on banners at anti-Israel rallies in multiple cities. Jewish businesses were targeted across Canada, either by vandals or for boycotts.

In Canada, no one should ever feel that they're at risk in their own neighbourhood. No one should feel the need to hide their identity. No Canadian should be made to feel they do not belong, yet we have community members who are thinking twice before wearing a kippah or a Star of David necklace in public. This isn't the Canada we know or want.

In 2019, the most recent year for which Statistics Canada data are available, Jews were the most targeted religious group for police-reported hate crimes, and targets of the second-most-police-reported hate crime overall. On average, an anti-Semitic incident happens pretty much every day of the week, 365 days of the year. Comprising only less than 1% of the Canadian population, Jewish Canadians accounted for 16% of all victims of hate crimes in 2019, a trend repeated year after year. This should be of grave concern to all Canadians.

Anti-Semitic incidents are also occurring online, in troubling numbers, where anti-Semitism and ideological extremism percolate and pose a threat to the well-being of all Canadians. As social media has become central to our daily lives, racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, anti-authoritarian and other hate-filled groups are exploiting platforms such as YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter and Instagram to spread their toxic ideals, often targeting our children and young adults. These vile groups are also active on Parler, 8chan and in other dark corners of the Internet, where they promote their hatred, radicalize and recruit Canadian youth.

We know from experience that this toxicity spread online can and too often does have real-world consequences. Online activities spurred murders of Jews in Pittsburgh and Muslims in Christchurch. The Pittsburgh shooter reportedly posted more than 700 anti-Semitic messages in hate-filled online communities over nine months prior to the attack. The Christchurch shooter's livestreaming of the killings was a means of promoting and inciting more such heinous acts.

While we welcome the addition of the Proud Boys to the list of terrorist entities, we believe more needs to be done. For some time, we have strongly encouraged the Government of Canada to list both the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, in its entirety, and Samidoun, a PFLP-affiliated organization that operates right here in Canada.

However, we must disabuse ourselves of the idea that radicalization happens only with the support of an organized group. The proliferation of online content has empowered the so-called lone wolf. Radicalization can manifest remotely, circulating in chats and forums without the direct support or coordination of an organized group. This new threat also makes it even more difficult for police and security services to track suspicious activity. From what we understand of the horrific tragedy in London, the murderer acted independently and may have been radicalized as a lone wolf. The same is true of the 2018 Toronto van attack.

Anti-Semitism is not associated solely with ideologically motivated violent extremists. While Jew hatred is central to many xenophobic belief systems such as neo-Nazism and white supremacy, anti-Semitism is also a key component in both religiously motivated violent extremism and in politically motivated violent extremism. Anti-Semitism is a hatred that does not live in a single category. It finds purchase in all three.

What most people may not appreciate is that anti-Semitism is a threat not only to Jews, but also to all Canadians and to our way of life. Combatting anti-Semitism benefits all of us, and we need to call it out whenever and wherever we see it, because what starts with Jews never ends with Jews.

Jewish Canadians value our just, liberal democratic society. There has been a lot of discussion about the role of law enforcement. From our perspective, we believe a well-educated and a well-resourced police force is an essential component in flighting hate crime.

Let me conclude, therefore, by providing five recommendations for the committee's consideration.

First, we recommend that law enforcement be given the tools they need to combat hate and radicalization, including bolstering existing police hate crime and community liaison units, and providing funding to establish new units where they do not yet exist. This includes increasing resources for security services to monitor, track and protect Canadians from online radicalization.

Second, we recommend increasing resources for law enforcement, Crown attorneys, judges and others to ensure they receive sufficient training on the importance of combatting online hate.

Third, we also recommend strengthening legislation to combat online hate, including developing a multipronged approach to raise awareness of online hate, adopting civil remedies to combat online hate, and establishing requirements for online platforms and Internet service providers for monitoring and addressing online hate on their own platform.

Fourth, we believe that funding for the security infrastructure program, SIP, should be increased. This program allows at-risk private not-for-profit organizations, such as places of worship and educational institutions, to enhance their security. To quickly illustrate the value of the program, a security guard at Congregation Shaar Hashomayim in Montreal was able to thwart an arson attack on the synagogue because of the surveillance cameras funded in part by the program.

Finally, we recommend Canada establish a community institution security rebate. As one of the groups most targeted by hate-motivated crime, Jewish institutions spend millions of dollars every year on security personnel. We recommend that the federal government implement a security rebate for at-risk places of worship, schools and community centres.

In conclusion, Mr. Chair and committee members, even though the Jewish community is resilient, we too feel vulnerable at the moment and we are respectfully asking you to take action. What we have proposed will not only serve the Jewish community, but it will benefit all Canadians. History has taught us repeatedly that if left unchecked, the toxin of anti-Semitism can poison all of us.

Thanks for inviting me here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Koffler.

With that, we'll turn to our first round of questions.

Ms. Stubbs, you have six minutes.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both the witnesses for being here and providing what was disturbing, moving, compelling and action-oriented testimony. I know that we all appreciate it.

I'm going to ask a couple of questions, and I'd like both of you to share your views.

You raised points about the fluidity between these categories of violent extremist activities, including religiously motivated and politically motivated extremism. Given the definition of IMVE by CSIS, would either or both of you want to expand on whether you have concerns about the relevance of the definitions and the words that are used here? Also, perhaps could you expand on the context of your point about the seeming increasing instances of lone wolf radicalization and violent harmful acts and crimes?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Who wishes to take that up, Mr. Fogel or Mr. Farooq?

[Shimon Koffler Fogel]

Sure, I'll start, and then I'm sure Mustafa will have things of value to add.

Having tracked the discussions of your committee, I was actually a little heartened at the effort to move away from definitions that are somewhat limiting and don't reflect what you spoke of in terms of the fluidity of the situation. I think it also speaks to your second point about the lone wolf phenomenon.

We had, in previous times, always been anchored in the belief that little cells operated and percolated together, and festered and bubbled until they reached a certain threshold, and then something erupted. What social media has really done is that it has given the individual hater a certain independence, where they can anonymously collect online all of the toxic material that really just inspires them to become increasingly radicalized in their own thinking, and to pick and choose from different grievances that are being articulated in ways that aren't limited to one particular perspective.

While I will absolutely agree that there should be a particular concern about right-wing, white supremacist kinds of phenomena that have been around for a while—which really are, especially for racialized communities like the Muslim community, a particular source of threat—individuals who have hate in their heart or perceive grievances will pull from everywhere in order to enrich, if you want to use such a term, their own sense of injustice that gives them permission to act out in real life what they're feeling in their heart.

I'm encouraged by the idea of moving away from specific terms to more of a generic description that really captures everything in a way that's far less limiting.

[Mustafa Farooq]

I think that, obviously, we have to continue to see how the usage of the term “IMVE” continues to be deployed and utilized. In general, it's a big term that seems all-encompassing. There are certain things that are good about that, and there are certain things that are problematic about it.

I think we do, though, have to be very clear in understanding the major security threat that I could speak to—at least, that I see faced by members of our community—which is a threat of what some call “alt-right” or white supremacist groups in Canada. As I think Shimon correctly pointed out, some seem to be coming out of the woodwork, as it were, through online mechanisms—sort of the classic lone wolf—some of whom are far more mobilized and terrifying, like the Three Percenters. While they've gone through their own internal power schisms and things of that nature, at one point they were training outside Lethbridge with semi-automatic weapons and practising drills with smoke bombs. This is my home province. That can't be something that's allowed to continue to exist. Indeed, if there were groups of folks who were running around doing that—I would presume, to BIPOC communities—I think Canadians would have dealt with that a little differently.

I think we need to be clear, as well, in calling the threat of white supremacy the same threat that came upon the doors of Washington, D.C., earlier this year. We have to be very clear in calling it what it is.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about half a minute.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Thank you, both of you.

Related to your points about moving from words to action, and to your point also about security and safety, of course the national security laws have been revised a number of times.

Mustafa, I was thinking about this during your opening comments. The latest changes, of course, were in Bill C-59, which I know both of your organizations testified about. Particular policies in it that were contentious were the removal of the propaganda and advocacy of terrorism as a criminal charge, and also the limitation of security surveillance of protestors during anti-government demonstrations. I just wonder if both of you want to share some views or thoughts on whether or not those legislative tools should be revisited.

Sorry, Chair, maybe they'll be able to get back to that afterwards.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Ms. Stubbs is past her time as she knows, which is unfortunate. Maybe you could work in a response to her question at some other time.

With that, I'll go to Ms. Damoff.

I understand you're going to be sharing your time with Madam Lambropoulos.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank both of our witnesses for being here today. It was difficult to listen to your testimony. It's heartbreaking to know that both your communities are afraid to go out, depending on what they're wearing, but I also know it's much more difficult to live that experience—which I don't.

Mr. Farooq, my sincere sympathy for the loss in London, Ontario, my hometown.

I attended a vigil last week in Oakville for the family that was killed in London. One of the things that was brought up at the vigil, as well as by community leaders and constituents, has been the representation of the Muslim community in the media and how that has contributed to the rise of Islamophobia. Could you talk a little bit about community-building programs and other things that we can do to dispel that perception in the media and amongst Canadians?

[Mustafa Farooq]

I wish that I had all the answers to that question. I think it's a big question that we're all trying to grapple with, especially in an age where we consume and form opinions and perspectives so quickly in the online sphere. In talking about how discourse is created, I think we also have to be careful that we don't bend the page in the direction of limiting civil liberties. Ultimately, I think that would be harmful to the way that we as Canadians need to engage and talk to each other and think and work through these challenging times together.

I think, though, that there are a number of critical steps that need to be taken so that Canadian Muslims, and also BIPOC folks in general, can tell their stories, can share with Canadians and can make space. Simultaneously, I think it's important that folks at all levels, especially at leadership levels, condemn hateful messages when they are put out there.

Sometimes I think we undervalue the importance of what leadership means. I can tell you that in the aftermath of the London attack, I saw articles in various newspapers with headlines stating something to the effect, “Are Canadian Muslims in danger? Nonsense” Or there were newspapers that came out the day after the London attack that didn't even acknowledge that it had happened. These are things that honestly hurt your heart to see, and I think we all have roles to play not only in speaking up about it but also in producing programs that empower communities to tell their own stories.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

I'll turn it over to you, Emmanuella.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thanks, Pam.

I'd like to begin by thanking all of our witnesses for being here today to help us figure out what the situation is on the ground and to try to protect communities across Canada.

I represent a riding that has a very high percentage of Muslims as well as Jewish Canadians. I've heard from both sides how much the fear is very real right now. I've heard that the Jewish community does feel that anti-Semitism is on the rise, especially in the last couple of months. After seeing what happened in London last week, obviously the Muslim community feels afraid to walk in the streets, afraid to go to the mosque, afraid to do things that they shouldn't be afraid of doing.

Currently we have a program—and I'm sure you guys are aware of the it—called the security infrastructure program.

I know that, Mr. Fogel, you mentioned that rebates should be given to institutions to help with security. I'm hearing that perhaps what's already available isn't enough, and maybe there are better ways of doing it. Do you mind commenting on that? This question is for both of you.

[Shimon Koffler Fogel]

I'm a big supporter of SIP as it stands now. I think anything that empowers a community to take some sense of ownership of its own situation is empowering. It gives them a sense of belonging and validation for their place. My comments weren't at all meant as criticism of SIP.

That said, this only really addresses one dimension of the overall security threat posed to communal institutions associated with targeted communities. What I'm suggesting is that there are other dimensions that the government should consider with respect to providing and enhancing that sense of validation and ownership that communities have. One is what I described earlier in one of the recommendations, which is a recognition that no matter how many cameras you have, you do need the additional deterrent of power. We used to rely on law enforcement, even paying off-duty police officers to come to be a presence in front of synagogues and other communal institutions at high-risk points. However, that is becoming untenable because of its cost.

I think what I suggested offers a reasonable compromise, where the government can give some consideration to the costs attached to these kind of services and presence—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, we're going to have the leave the answer there. We're way past the time.

Go ahead, Ms. Michaud. You have six minutes.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us.

As my fellow members have already mentioned, your remarks are heartbreaking, as well as disturbing. The people you talked about should not have to go through what they are going through. Thank you for your presentations.

As you probably know, on June 11, the House of Commons adopted a motion calling on political leaders at every level of government to urgently change their policies to prevent another attack targeting Canadian Muslims, such as the recent attack in London. The motion called on the federal government to convene an emergency national action summit on Islamophobia that should take place before the end of July 2021.

Mr. Farooq, I know that is something your organization has been asking for for a while now. Could you talk about the possible outcome of such a summit and the role the federal government should play in addressing Islamophobia?

[Mustafa Farooq]

Thank you very much for your question, and again, I want to thank all members and your colleagues as well for your unanimous support of the need to stand up and do something. It meant a great deal to folks. I will say the call for the national action summit actually came from the London Muslim mosque in the immediate aftermath of the attack. It is one that we were happy to echo and to champion as well.

In terms of what palpable action can be taken, I think we have to recognize that the challenge in front of us is a multi-jurisdictional one. It is a challenge that has to be confronted by the federal government, by provincial governments, by municipal governments and by territorial governments. For far too long, it's been easy for folks to say that it's another person's job to fix the problem. I think there are huge roles to play at every level to ensure that we're dealing with the challenges in front of us.

At the federal level, it's everything from figuring out new ways to deal with white supremacist groups to online hate regulations and the appointment of a special envoy on Islamophobia. At the provincial level, it's looking at new methodologies for pedagogy and education to focus on anti-racism. Even as the bodies of our indigenous children come out of the earth, I think now more than ever it's time to think about education as a key part of recognizing some of the tragedies that have occurred over this country's history. At the municipal level, it's looking at street harassment and representation. There are so many critical questions.

I think that is what such a national action summit can do. I look forward to working with all of you to make sure that the recommendations coming out of the summit are implemented. Ultimately, the test for governments and individuals who are committed to action is to implement the recommendations that come forward.

[Kristina Michaud, Bloc, Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you.

Both of you talked about additional tools for law enforcement as a possible solution.

Back in 2019, your organization called on the federal government to create a grant program to train police on how to counter hate and lay charges under the Criminal Code.

Since 2019, has the government acted on your recommendations?