Public Safety Committee on Nov. 25th, 2020

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Certainly we have asked that CSIS and the RCMP continue to do their very important work of gathering the evidence and making assessments based on the law—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Okay, it's been two years. We'll follow up again, I guess, to see if you've done your role there, but I need to move on, Minister.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No, but the law hasn't changed with respect—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I need to move on, Minister.

Mohamed—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—to the listing of terrorist organizations, and we're following the law.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Okay. Again, it's better that we don't talk over each other.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Right, but Parliament has given direction. It would be your job to ensure that it's executed.

Sorry; thanks, Chair.

Mohamed Hersi was arrested in 2011 and sentenced in 2014 to 10 years for trying to join a terrorist group. He is deemed a high risk to reoffend due to extremist ideologies and violent behaviour and is clearly a threat to others.

Under the conditional release act, offenders are not supposed to be given statutory release when they're a threat to others. Why is he going to be back on the streets before his sentence is up, Minister?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Again, the Parole Board can, and does, impose conditions on any offender who is available for statutory release, which it did in this case. Those determinations are made independently by the Parole Board of Canada. They impose conditions, again independent of any political consideration, and all offenders in those circumstances must report regularly to the Correctional Service of Canada parole officer.

I would invite our Parole Board chair to add any comment she believes is appropriate in responding to your concern.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about one minute.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

She could follow later on that, Minister. I just need to hold you accountable, because you do have an option. You can ensure the legislation is applied correctly. The Parole Board has deemed Mr. Hersi a high risk to reoffend, so he clearly shouldn't be eligible for statutory release.

In 2019, five additional people convicted of terrorism-related offences were released under statutory release provisions. The Parole Board deemed four of those individuals as still radicalized and remaining as high risks. Why is the Parole Board's guidance not being followed in these cases?

Again, in terms of what you are going to do, you should know that in February the U.K. passed emergency legislation to ensure that those convicted of terrorist offences serve full sentences and are not granted early statutory release. That was a result of two separate incidents in which there were releases who then carried out a terrorist attack. As the public safety minister, it's literally your job to ensure that legislation and policies are being enforced right now, and you also have the option to take legislative action to fix this problem.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Briefly, I'd simply remind the member that under our government, we've taken far more action, and far more effective action, in dealing with these individuals. In fact, we brought eight of these offenders to court and to justice, and I compare that with the dismal record of zero under the previous government. We've also committed to supporting prosecution authorities, bringing forward and appointing a director of terrorism prosecutions.

Mr. Chair, our officials are doing their job—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Well, I've just given you six examples of severe threats to public safety in Canada right now—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I am unfortunately going to have to—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

—so with all due respect, after half a decade of power, you should actually fix the problem instead of blaming previous governments.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm unfortunately going to have to bring this—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

You left us with so many problems.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

—scintillating exchange to a close.

[Glen Motz, Conservative, Medicine Hat—Cardston—Warner, AB]

Chair, I think maybe Minister Blair would want me back now.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You are starting to look pretty good, Mr. Motz.

Colleagues, we have the minister for another 15 minutes. Madam Damoff has five minutes to finish off this round.

Could you indicate to the clerk whether you want a truncated fourth round? My proposal would be something like two minutes each, and maybe a minute for the Bloc and the NDP, so it would be two, two, one, one, two, two. That would bring us to the end and our votes.

With that, we go to Madam Damoff.

Could you indicate to the clerk immediately? Thank you.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Commissioner, when you were here last time, I asked you about the report on Colten Boushie. This weekend I'm interviewing his family as part of a panel that I'm doing.

When I asked you about the report last time, I wasn't aware that there are actually 149 interim reports awaiting a response until I read about it in a November 10, 2020, article. One report is more than four years old, 14 are three to four years, 44 are two to three years, 49 are one to two years, and 41 files are for less than a year.

As we've been looking at systemic racism in policing, I think probably one of the most important things we've heard is on accountability and consequences when there are things that go wrong, and Commissioner, these numbers are just unacceptable.

First, it's three and a half weeks until the end of fall. Will the Boushie family get the report released publicly before then? Second, what are you doing to deal with this backlog?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

After you asked me that question about the Boushie report, I went back to my team and really pushed the envelope. Lots of information was given to us from the CRCC in January, and I have been told I will have that report on my desk on December 4 and I will work through the weekend to get through it. It will go back to CRCC and it will be up to them to release it. We don't release it.

I get the report on December 4. I'm going to work through the weekend on it and make sure that I'm prepared to release it to the CRCC shortly after that.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

What about the other 149 reports that are outstanding?

[Commr Brenda Lucki]

Those aren't public interest investigations like the Colten Boushie report. Colten Boushie's was specific. They're much lengthier in time.

You're right that we need to get better. Canadians deserve better when we talk about timelines, whether it is ATIP or CRCC reports. We've created an MOU with the CRCC with the service standard. We need to get rid of the backlog, and we're committed to getting rid of the backlog in 2021 and not having a backlog. We're hiring more people to do those reviews and provide those responses. There is absolute commitment on the part of my team that we will eliminate the backlog and be more timely in our responses within the service standard that we're setting out.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Stewart, I have a question for you. We had Dr. Zinger here a few weeks ago, and one of the things he said in his report was that he's just tired of recommending things to CSC because they just don't listen.

Have you met with Dr. Zinger, and what are you doing to ensure that some of these recommendations are being implemented by CSC? One of them particularly had to do with employment training in the institution.