Evidence of meeting #43 for Public Safety and National Security in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was weapons.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
My communications primarily with the commissioner were direct, face to face, or sometimes—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
How about your chief of staff? How does she communicate?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
I don't know. I will tell you that the only app I use is my parliamentary email account, and I also use the phones together with text messaging when it's available.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Thank you very much.
Did you do any prep work with the PMO in the lead-up to this meeting?
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Did you do any prep work with Commissioner Lucki or her staff? Did you talk to her in the lead-up to this?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
At my last conversation with the commissioner, I think you were present. We were at the musical ride at the college. I spoke briefly to the commissioner, and you were standing beside me at the time.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Minister, I'm going to ask you this very specifically.
This is what Commissioner Lucki said in testimony at the MCC, under oath, as you said. I'm going to quote her. This is verbatim.
I was told. I asked. I was asked questions from the chief of staff: “Will this be included? Are the details of firearms going to be included in this media event?” I tell the chief of staff, “Yes, you know what, it's going to be part of this big event.”
What's your response to that? Do you believe that she was lying about your chief of staff saying that?
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Perhaps not to you, Ms. Dancho, but if I may, what you just read to us was not my chief of staff giving any direction to the commissioner of the RCMP, but asking what the RCMP had decided to do.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
Pardon me, Minister, but you're not denying that your chief of staff asked her this. That's new.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Frankly, I don't know. You're talking about a conversation—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
—to which I was not party. But what you just read to me is not in any way giving direction to the RCMP; it's information about a briefing.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
We're not asking about direction, Minister, and you're well aware of that. We're asking if pressure was put on the commissioner, even subtly, from your office.
If the chief of staff to the Minister of Public Safety, to whom the commissioner is responsible, is speaking, it's on your behalf. If she's asking the commissioner, as you just confirmed, you have not denied this, “Are those weapons going to be released?”, that is pressure.
Do you not see that, Minister?
That's why we are here today. That's why this saga has gone on for five months. A ministerial directive does not preclude political interference, Minister.
I will go on to ask a few more questions—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
If you don't want a response to that, I'll....
I have one.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Raquel Dancho Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB
She also made it very clear, and my colleague alluded to this, that she had to apologize to you. This is what it says in the audio recording. She said, “not being able to come through for the Minister, um...on the simplest of requests”.
Further on, she said, “I already have a request sitting in my phone that the Minister wants to speak with me, and I know exactly what it's going to be about.”
She looks like she's very responsible to you for this information not being released in the press conference, and yet you're denying that this ever happened. You denied on the record in committee that you didn't even know she was going after this information. Yet, she's telling her staff quite indignantly, in an audio recording, that she's going to have to apologize to you for failing to deliver that information publicly.
You're denying that ever happened. You are expecting us to believe that, Minister.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to that.
To be very clear, I never spoke to the commissioner of the RCMP about this, and she never apologized to me. What she said to her subordinates is something you can ask her about, as to why she said it.
I can confirm for this committee that I did not ask the commissioner to do this. She never promised me she would—
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Bill Blair Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
There was no call outstanding with me. In fact, at no time has the commissioner—
