Public Safety Committee on Dec. 9th, 2025

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

I call this meeting to order.

It's a pleasure and an honour to be here with you. Welcome to meeting number 19 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security.

To begin this morning, we're resuming debate on the motion moved by me on Thursday, December 4 and on the amendment moved by Ms. Acan. Both the motion and the amendment have been distributed to members by the clerk via email.

Is there any further debate on the motion?

Madame DeBellefeuille, you have the floor.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to ask for the committee's unanimous consent to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch with the motion I tabled, the one that all parties have been able to discuss. We could then try to come to a consensus on my motion.

I don't know if there's unanimous consent.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Before we go to Ms. Acan, I have to canvass the room as to whether there is unanimous consent. Just so we're clear, Madame DeBellefeuille, are you asking for unanimous consent to consider the motion that you put forward? Is that correct? Oh, sorry, Madame, are you seeking unanimous consent to withdraw the amendment?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

I'm having trouble understanding you, because I'm hearing the French and English interpretations at the same time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Okay, we'll suspend for 30 seconds, please. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Madame De Bellefeuille, when we left off, I was seeking clarification on your proposal for unanimous consent.

Could you summarize it one more time, please?

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

There was a lot of discussion at the last meeting, because we may not have all been prepared to see how we were going to anticipate the debates on the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑8. I then moved a motion, and all parties received a copy. I move:

That the Chair be instructed to invite the Minister of Industry to appear before the committee as part of its study of Bill C‑8 no later than Friday, January 30, 2026;

that the analysts provide the committee with a summary of the recommendations received by the clerk, either during committee proceedings or in the form of briefs, on the day of the Minister’s appearance;

that the deadline for submitting amendments be set at 48 working hours following the Minister’s appearance;

that the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑8 begin only after the Minister has appeared;

that the committee devote the number of meetings necessary to complete the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑8 and that the committee do not proceed to other committee business until the clause-by-clause review is concluded.

Mr. Chair, I thought this motion brought together all the wishes of the committee members around the table to make it possible to keep working on Bill C‑8. I was hoping there would be a consensus. I need unanimous consent so that we can use this motion as a basis for discussion, rather than following a motion that deals with a procedural formality, such as the motion you tabled and that Ms. Acan amended. As needed, I would probably subamend or amend it myself, depending on the context.

You're the boss, so I shared my proposal with you to facilitate our discussions—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

No, the committee is the boss here. If I understand it correctly, to be clear, Madame DeBellefeuille is seeking unanimous consent to substitute her motion that has been distributed for the motion that was put forward and subsequently amended.

Are we all on the same page there? Okay.

Do we have unanimous consent to do so?

Ms. Acan, go ahead, please.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

I believe that we can all move forward with Madame DeBellefeuille's motion, as she has the option. It includes my amendment and, with her motion, I believe that we can all agree. For that reason, I would like to have unanimous consent from the floor to withdraw my amendment, so we can move forward with Madame DeBellefeuille's motion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Ms. Acan is seeking unanimous consent to withdraw her amendment. Is anybody opposed?

(Amendment withdrawn)

Now we also have the main motion on the floor. Ms. DeBellefeuille, as I understand it, is seeking unanimous consent to replace the motion, and I don't think we need a withdrawal if that's the case.

Yes, Ms. Kirkland, do you want to intervene?

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Yes, I'm happy with what is here. I would suggest a friendly amendment to Madame DeBellefeuille's motion—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

I'm sorry. If I may interrupt, I believe we have to deal with the UC motion first, Ms. Kirkland.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Oh, I see.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

To be clear, we have a motion on the floor. Ms. DeBellefeuille is seeking to substitute her motion for the motion on the floor. Do we have unanimous consent for that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

We are now on Madame DeBellefeuille's motion, which is before the committee.

Ms. Acan, you had your hand up earlier. Do you still seek the floor?

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

No. I raised my voice. Thank you so much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Thank you.

Is there any discussion on this motion?

Ms. Kirkland, go ahead, please.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Yes. Again, I would just ask that we potentially have a friendly amendment to remove, in the last paragraph, after Bill C-8:

and that the committee not proceed to other committee business until the clause-by-clause review is concluded

My reasoning for that, if you would like to have it, is simply that we're not sure what may come up, and I would never want to preclude us from potentially dealing also with the recommendations of madam's study, which we have coming up when we return, and potential other business. I don't see it happening, but it may. I just don't want to box us in.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Thank you, Miss Kirkland.

I don't know that we can regard it as a friendly amendment. It is substantial. Would you be moving that amendment formally?

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Okay.

Is there any discussion on Ms. Kirkland's amendment?

Madam DeBellefeuille, please go ahead.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry—Soulanges—Huntingdon, QC]

Mr. Chair, this committee usually has trouble working by consensus. Our process has been quite complex from the beginning. I know that the reason Ms. Kirkland would like to remove that small phrase from my motion is to give us more flexibility.

If the amendment were to be adopted…. I see my motion as a test of commitment and honesty. For my part, I want the consideration of Bill C‑8 to be done intelligently and as quickly as possible when we come back from the holiday break. Of course, amendments will be proposed, but we know that it won't be a huge amount of work.

I would love to see all the committee members get behind the motion and commit to having Bill C‑8 as one of our priorities when we come back so that the committee can move on to other work.

I obviously understand Ms. Kirkland when she says she's afraid that the motion will restrict the committee and give the chair the necessary legitimacy to not convene a meeting.

It's a test of trust, then. If the amendment is adopted, it will mean that we trust each other and that we're simply giving ourselves some flexibility. If there's a problem, the chair will obviously have to convene the committee. There's other work coming up; there's my study, which is at the report-writing stage, and there's Mr. Caputo's study, which will continue.

Personally, I want to trust our team. We had a great experience with the consideration of Bill C‑12. This amendment could be acceptable. If the Liberals agree, it could be seen as a friendly amendment so that we can quickly agree on how to proceed with the work surrounding Bill C‑8.

I'll make that commitment. The Bloc Québécois really wants Bill C‑8 to be passed quickly when we return from the holiday break. However, I understand Ms. Kirkland's amendment, which seeks to give the committee some flexibility in case there's a mishap.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Frank Caputo]

Thank you for that.

Ms. Acan, the floor is yours.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Merci, Mr. Chair.

I agree with Madame DeBellefeuille.

We can, as a committee, work together on that clause-by-clause and make a very quick study on that, as the legislation takes priority, especially clause-by-clause.

Raising that amendment could possibly lead to delays. It's a potential. I support Madame DeBellefeuille's motion to say:

and that the committee not proceed to other committee business until the clause-by-clause review is concluded.

I believe our committee will do a fast study and will finish it after clause-by-clause, focusing on this legislation and on this clause-by-clause study, so I would like to move forward with the motion but not the amendment.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.