Science and Research Committee on Nov. 14th, 2022

[Allister Surette]

In the context of.... I don't know which language to use now. You started in French and went into English.

I will start in French.

Certainly our researchers and our professors have relationships with the other francophone and anglophone universities. They certainly have relationships with the francophone universities in Canada, especially those in minority communities. Many of the challenges we face are the same and we can share that. We also work with the anglophone universities in Nova Scotia and the entire Atlantic region. We have a network called Springboard that connects the educational institutions and enables them to share information. No university, whether anglophone or francophone, has expertise in all fields.

At the international level, it is somewhat the same situation. We have signed agreements with universities in France. We are currently looking at how to maximize the results of our efforts on various issues. We rely on the international element quite often to try to share expertise with other colleagues in the Francophonie who can help us support some of our research.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Deveau, as a very active researcher, can you tell us about not just the difficulties you have encountered in publishing your own work, but also what you see in Nova Scotia, at Université Sainte-Anne and in other Canadian universities?

[Kenneth Deveau]

Thank you, Ms. Diab.

Much of what I have said and will probably say is related to the perspective of the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse.

However, you are asking me my opinion as a former researcher. I have a number of publications to my credit. My work was funded by the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council. I listened to a bit of the previous session and it was mentioned that the humanities were lagging behind. Personally, I am in a field where most of the specialists in Canada are from the Canadian francophonie. My research dealt precisely with the vitality of francophone minority communities, and more specifically with the role played by the French-language school in that vitality.

I have signed or cosigned 30 or 40 publications over the years. It is worth noting that the ones that are most often cited are far from being the best, but they are the two or three that are in English. Some granting councils, in particular the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, consider the impact factor to be very important. If my work had been reviewed by those councils based on that factor, I am not sure I would have received the grants I received from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

We have done a lot of work on the subject of immigration, but not from the research angle. What role can immigration play in this area, do you think?

[Kenneth Deveau]

I believe that immigration offers some very worthwhile possibilities for our country, our society and our community here in Nova Scotia, from every angle. When it comes to research, the students and professors we attract, as well as the graduates, are going to really contribute to building a better society for us all. As a francophone university in Nova Scotia, we have access to a recruitment pool of these people that no other university in our province can tap.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Ms. Diab.

[Lena Metlege Diab, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Again, I'd like to thank all of the witnesses.

I'd also like to recognize that Ms. Kayabaga joins us tonight, and we thank her as well.

Now we're going to go to Mr. Blanchette-Joncas for six minutes.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses who are participating in the second hour of the meeting.

Mr. Deveau, if I understood correctly, the Acadian community in Nova Scotia is still having trouble carrying out scientific research, and publishing the results, in French. That being said, I want to congratulate the francophone scientific community in Nova Scotia on its vitality.

Do you think the federal government is supporting you enough to enable you to ensure the continuity of your research and teaching activities in French in a lasting and sustainable manner?

[Kenneth Deveau]

Thank you for your question, but I believe Mr. Surette is in a somewhat better position to answer it than I am.

We are grateful for the support we receive, but we need more and we need it to be more formative. There are a lot of costs associated with working in French. In addition, since we live in an anglophone community, our collaborations with the scientific community are often in English.

I have alluded to support in connection with collaboration. For example, the universities in Halifax often find the collaborators they need across the street. In our case, we have to find them in Ontario or, often, in Quebec, and this involves costs.

We have the support of the government of Quebec for those kinds of partnerships with Quebec. We would like to have more support from the federal government for our collaboration activities. We would particularly like it to recognize the additional burden they create for us in our context, in connection with the mobility of master's and doctorate students and of researchers, and the frequent obligation to do it in both official languages.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Deveau.

Mr. Surette, I'm curious to hear your opinion about this.

[Allister Surette]

We recognize the support we have had to date and we are doing relatively well.

We have a number of challenges in Nova Scotia, where Université Sainte-Anne is the only francophone postsecondary institution. We are working in a majority anglophone setting, and this is a challenge within our own province. As well, we serve coastal and remote communities, as the only postsecondary institution in those regions.

We do everything in our power to conduct research activities in French and to offer services in French, while preserving Acadian culture and the francophonie.

As I said in my opinion remarks, we have to support our industries, be it aquaculture or fishing. A number of the people who work in fishing or aquaculture are francophones. We are a bit divided, since we have to conduct a certain number of research activities in English but we still have to meet the needs of our Acadian and francophone communities.

Small institutions like ours face a number of challenges. Université Sainte-Anne has only had is own research office for a year. We created it to try to support our professors, for submitting applications, for preparing them, but it remains a challenge, since our resources are limited.

One of the things the federal government could do is create a research assistance service to provide more support for our researchers in French. In fact, I think that was one of the recommendations by the états généraux des universités de la francophonie canadienne. The federal government could certainly do more of that to promote research in French and support the submission of applications in French in a way that is equitable with English.

As I said, we recognize the support that the federal government has given us to date, but there are still things that need improvement in order to support our researchers more.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Surette.

You talked about making things equitable. Based on the current data, the number of grant applications submitted to the three granting agencies of the federal government in French is lower than the number of applications in English.

I would like to know your opinion on the solutions that might be considered. Should a proportion of the funding be reserved for research and scientific publishing in French? Should the three granting agencies have to establish criteria, incentives, to encourage research and scientific publication in French?

[Allister Surette]

That is what I am seeing to date. Obviously, I understand very well the concerns of francophones and anglophones and the challenges faced by linguistic minorities.

However, “equitable” doesn't mean “equal”. So we have to make special efforts to assist our researchers. We have to create structures to support them.

I don't think there need to be quotas imposed or specific funding amounts. However, we do still have to support research in French, whether to ensure that research in French is mobilized and made accessible or to support our researchers in submitting applications in French.

Because research published in English is much more widely consulted and visible than research published in French, we may also have to institute a system of support for translation or a way of promoting research done in French more.

[Maxime Blanchette-Joncas, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Surette.

Mr. Deveau, do you want to answer as well?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Your speaking time is up, Mr. Blanchette‑Joncas.

I'm sorry; that's the six minutes. Perhaps someone will follow up with Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas' questions. Thank you.

Now we will go to Mr. Cannings for six minutes, please.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you to the witnesses for being here this evening. It was very interesting to hear about Université Sainte-Anne and the Acadian Federation of Nova Scotia.

I'll start with Mr. Surette and the Université Sainte-Anne.

You've talked about a lot of the challenges that you face in funding research and funding your programs. It seems that a lot of those challenges come from simply being a small institution. I'm wondering if you could indicate how much of those problems are from the size of your institution versus the fact that it is francophone in an anglophone world of Nova Scotia. Have you any sense of where those challenges come from?

[Allister Surette]

That's a great question. I think of a chicken and the egg. We're obviously one of 10 universities in Nova Scotia. I guess the positive part is that when we talk about differentiation between the universities, it's quite easy for us to position ourselves as different from the others: We're the only one that operates completely in French.

We're not a bilingual institution. We operate completely in the French language, which on the other hand limits us in terms of recruiting, for example, with the number of students in Nova Scotia who speak French. We have a French school board, of course. That's one area where we can recruit, and the immersion programs in the English school boards are fantastic these days, so that's another recruitment pool for us, as it is for the other Atlantic provinces and Canadian provinces. We also go internationally now, and we have over 15 different international countries represented here in the student population.

We're doing fairly well in terms of holding our own and actually improving our numbers, but we still remain small compared to the bigger universities in this province and in other parts of Canada, and economies of scale are always a challenge for us.

In terms of programs, we're doing fairly well. We're trying to identify programs in which the French language is a value added to our students—education, for example. They can teach in an immersion program or in the French school board. And all of our students are fully bilingual, so they can even teach in the English school board. That's one example.

The other part that I really feel is part of our responsibility is to support the Acadian regions of Nova Scotia. As you probably know, the four main Acadian regions are all coastal regions. They're largely based on the fishing industry, or aquaculture these days, and there was no research facility in southwestern Nova Scotia, which has the highest landings of lobster, for example, in probably the entire country. Over the years, we've had the support of the provincial and the federal government to develop a lobster quality research centre in this part of the province. We might be seen as supporting the French language and the Acadian culture, but we're also supporting the economy of these regions here. When we're talking about the vitality of some of these smaller regions, as I mentioned earlier, let's remember that we're at least three hours from the main airport in Halifax, with no public transit to these regions here, so we're in rural remote areas that need the support, and an institution such as Sainte Anne can really play that role.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Just to follow up on that, you mentioned—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Mr. Cannings, I'm sorry. Could I just ask you to take your mike slightly away from your face? Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

Just to follow up on that, Mr. Surette, we were just talking about some of the challenges of being small and being the only francophone institution. Not to diminish those challenges, but are there any opportunities, any pluses, to being the only fully francophone institution in Nova Scotia, not just for attracting students but for attracting funding from all levels of government because you are playing that role? Do you see any advantages there?

[Allister Surette]

We certainly have the support of the provincial government in terms of our operations, as do most of the other institutions, but because of our minority situation, we've had great support from the federal government under Canadian Heritage, for example. We also have great support from ACOA with respect to official languages in terms of economic development in this region, so yes, we're positioned quite differently from the anglophone universities in this province. We serve a very specific niche in terms of our francophone population, which includes anglophones who speak French, the francophone immigrants who are here now and, as I mentioned earlier, our communities.

Depending on where we're at, whether it's entrepreneurship or economic development or programming, we can tap into different levels of government, especially the federal government, if we're looking at new programming or ways of doing things differently. The operational funding comes mostly from the provincial government or from our student tuition and so on, but for special projects we've had great support from the federal government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Mr. Cannings, that's the end. Is there a written question?

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

No, that's fine. I can't see your cards from here. I was just going on gut feeling.

Thank you very much to the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kirsty Duncan]

Thank you, Mr. Cannings, and thank you to our witnesses.

We'll now go to our five-minute round, and this time we go to Monsieur Blanchette-Joncas.