Status of Women Committee on Oct. 31st, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I call to order meeting number 20 of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

First, I have to apologize for such tight quarters, but we are trying to squeeze in an extra hour. Doing that here is not easy, as all our standing committees are meeting in various rooms. To get an extra hour for committee business before our witnesses, the best the clerk could get is where we are. Make yourselves as comfortable as you can. If the committee desires and if our room is available, we may shift to the other room at 11 o'clock, but that will depend on how much work we think we can get done without having to disrupt and lose valuable time.

Before we go too far into it this morning, I'd like to go over a variety of items that should be before you on your desks. Between now and 11 o'clock, when we start with our witnesses, we have two motions, one by Ms. Minna and one by Ms. Smith. Frankly, we need to deal with those motions.

Following that, we want to discuss future business. You have a discussion document that is before you, or will be before you in a moment, to help us focus on human trafficking, a list of new witnesses, an updated calendar, and discussions on our November 6 meeting on gender-based analysis. We need to discuss those issues between now and 11 o'clock, when we start having our witnesses. I would appreciate it if we could keep ourselves as pointed as possible to the issues before us.

We need to give our analysts some direction on whether or not we need to or want to narrow our focus on human trafficking specifically to the sexual exploitation avenue. If we do, we need to look at our witnesses to see if these are the witnesses best able to help us on that part of the study. Also, do we want to expand the study date, rather than December, which we were aiming for, and so on?

As you can see, there is a variety of issues that have to be discussed today, and we do not have a whole lot of time to get those discussions done.

I would like us to move into the motion that we have on the floor by Ms. Minna. There had been a lot of discussion on that motion at the time. Let me say to you that I think it's important that we vote on it. I don't know if there's a need for further discussion on the motion, but I do want to read out something pertaining to that, so we know what the rules are.

When we had our first committee meeting we had a motion by Ms. Smith that had preamble to it. Because we had started with that process, I didn't want to change the process, so that we were fair and equal to everyone. But as of today, we should not have preambles. Preambles are usually the parts that get us into lengthy discussions, no matter what they say. As a result of the use of preambles, the committee becomes unable to express itself clearly on the question put to it; in other words, what becomes the subject of the debate is the preamble more than the actual motion itself.

So from this point on, we will get right to the point of motions. As for the preambles, you can read them yourself aloud, and get them read into the record, but when we bring motions to the committee from today on, we need to bring specifically the part of the motion we want to vote on.

Your comments, of course, are read into the record, and that would be fine.

Shall we proceed with Ms. Minna's motion? I will read it out:

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women recommends that the government reverse the $5 million in cuts to the operating budget of Status of Women Canada and re-instate the original Terms and Conditions of the Women's Program and that the Chair report the adoption of this motion to the House without delay.

Would you like a recorded vote on this?

[Some hon. members]

Yes, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

To clarify, it was agreed at the last meeting that in this motion the preamble would stay. But from today on, there won't be preambles allowed in the motions. I hope everyone understands.

Mr. Stanton.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

I would like a clarification on that, Madam Chair. In this case, if this motion today passes, will the preamble be part of the report?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

It was voted on at the last meeting. There was a motion to delete that and it failed, so the preamble is here. So for this motion, it will stay as it is.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

However, from this point forward, any motions brought will be absent of any preamble—

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

That's right; they will be absent of any preamble.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Any preamble will not become part of the report.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

All right. Madam Clerk, we will vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Yes, Mr. Miller, please go ahead.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Madam Chair, concerning the vote, I presumed that I was sworn in, but I didn't get a chance to vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

We haven't received your substitution sheet. Until we have a substitution sheet, the person is not allowed to speak or vote.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

I'm sorry about that.

Ms. Smith, would you like to speak concerning your motion?

[Joy Smith, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Yes, I would. Thank you, Madam Chair.

The notice of motion is in front of you. The motion reads:

Pursuant to Standing Order 108 (2) that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women (SWC) recognize that all women are equal in Canada under the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that the government strive to address the barriers that would prevent the full participation of women in Canadian society, so the economic, social and cultural situation is improved through projects directly impacting women in communities across Canada.

Clearly, Madam Chair, we are just following the laws of the land. Clearly, under the Constitution all women, all Canadians, are equal. I think it's very dangerous to say that one segment of society is not allowed to be equal in Canada, because under our Constitution that is the reason people come to Canada. It is because they know they are equal; they know it is the land of opportunity. That is what we have control over as a government and as a nation.

Second, however, we can't control everybody's thoughts and feelings, because in a democratic society people are free to function the way they see best within the law. That's when the barriers come in, and these are the barriers we have been talking about at the status of women committee.

For instance, human trafficking is a real barrier to the equality of women, because criminal minds step in and criminal minds take over. As parliamentarians, we need to address those barriers and put laws in place that enhance the safety of women.

Also, when barriers are there for economic concerns or other concerns, laws that help women overcome those barriers need to be put in place.

This motion, Madam Chair, is first to recognize that all women are equal, but second, to strive to address the barriers that prevent the full participation of women in our Canadian society, so that economically, socially, or culturally, all women can be recognized as the leaders they are.

I would ask that this committee support this motion, because clearly the intent of this motion, I believe, reflects what we're trying to do here in status of women.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Thank you very much, Ms. Smith.

To speak to the motion, we have Ms. Stronach next.

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have an amendment I'd like to propose to the motion.

I'd like to see that we give more teeth and more substance to this motion. I'd like the motion to read:

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women recognize that all women are equal in Canada under the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that the government

And this is where I'd like to add:

reinstate equality as the primary goal of the women's program at Status of Women Canada

And then we could continue on:

and strive to address the barriers that would prevent the full participation of women in Canadian society, so that the economic, social,

And then I'd like to add in:

political, and legal aspects

And then continue on:

and cultural situation is improved through projects directly impacting women in communities across Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Would you like to read that a second time?

[Belinda Stronach, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Reread the whole thing? Okay.

It would read:Pursuant to the Standing Order 108(2), that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women recognize that all women are equal in Canada under the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that the government reinstate equality as the primary goal of the women's program at Status of Women Canada and strive to address the barriers that would prevent the full participation of women in Canadian society, so that the economic, social, political and legal aspects, and cultural situation is improved through projects directly impacting women in communities across Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Ms. Mourani.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

: Thank you, Madam Chair. I would also like to put forward an amendment. It differs from the one presented by my colleague in that it amends the proposal, not the amendment. Do you follow?

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Would you mind repeating that? I'm sorry.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I would like to propose an amendment to Ms. Smith's motion, and not a sub-amendment to the amendment put forward by Ms. Stronach. That is what I said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Judy Sgro]

Okay.

[Maria Mourani, Bloc, Ahuntsic, QC]

I therefore would like to move another amendment, which to me is an improvement.