Evidence of meeting #24 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was human.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Deborah Isaacs  Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network
Barbara Kryszko  Coordinator, Action Alert, Coalition Against Trafficking in Women - International
Irene Sushko  National President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress
Benjamin Perrin  Advisor to the Board, The Future Group
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Michelle Tittley

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

I call to order the 24th meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

Good morning to everyone, with a special good morning to our witnesses. I very much appreciate and thank you for finding the time to appear before the committee today on this very important subject we are looking at, the issue of human trafficking.

We will go right to presentations from our witnesses. The last 15 minutes of the meeting will be left for some committee business that we need to attend to.

Members, before we hear from the witnesses, are there any comments to be made? No? All right.

I would like to welcome today the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Deborah Isaacs, project coordinator; the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women, Barbara Kryszko, action alert coordinator; and from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, Irene Sushko. The Future Group is represented by Benjamin Perrin, adviser to the board; it's always nice to have males around when we're doing these interesting subjects.

Please keep your presentations down to approximately five minutes. We will hear from all of you individually, and then we will go around the table for questions and answers. If you could use your five minutes to get in as many points as possible, we would appreciate it.

We will open it up to whoever would like to speak first, your choice.

Ms. Isaacs.

11:10 a.m.

Deborah Isaacs Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Honourable Chair, members of Parliament, on behalf of SCION project, I would like to thank you for the invitation to speak to you on human trafficking.

SCION project is a collaborative effort between MOSAIC, a Vancouver settlement organization that for the past thirty years has been helping newcomers integrate into Canada, and the Sisters of the Good Shepherd, an international Catholic religious congregation located in over 70 countries, an NGO holding a special consultative status with ECOSOC at the United Nations.

Since the end of 2002, we have become more and more involved with the question of human trafficking in collaboration with the Canadian Council for Refugees, the RCMP, the provincial Ministry of the Solicitor General, and other NGOs in the Vancouver area.

In our work we have recognized major problems in the protection of victims of trafficking. The usual definition used is an adaptation of the Palermo Protocol. However, many NGOs have been highly critical of the protocol, notably because it addresses trafficking within the context of organized crime rather than from within the framework of migrants' rights. The protocol does not acknowledge the responsibility of states for creating the conditions within which trafficking flourishes. It frames anti-trafficking measures as migration control measures. Because of this criticism, many NGOs have a much broader view of what was meant by coercion than is meant by authorities, thus leading to uncertainty as to who is a victim and who is not for the purposes of regulations.

Even though Canada has signed the Convention against Transnational Organized Crime and its protocols, it has not incorporated the protection aspects into Canadian law. For the first few years, victims of trafficking continued to be looked on as criminals, and some still are, or at best, illegal migrants, and were rapidly deported. Thus, the only ones getting protection were the traffickers themselves.

In 2004, the RCMP in B.C. were able to offer some sort of protection on an ad hoc basis to victims, and in May 2006, a small positive first step to protection was introduced with the issuing of guidelines for temporary residence permits for victims of trafficking. Regrettably, the government did not consult with NGOs before these guidelines were issued, and since they do not involve new regulations, there are many gaps and problems that will limit their use. There is also no acknowledgment of the special needs of children, who are also covered by the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The automatic notification of CBSA and/or police on application will be looked on with mistrust by potential victims who are unsure of their status, especially those who self-identify. Many NGOs already fear that a negative decision will lead to deportation, as the person would now appear on CBSA's radar screens. This would not be a problem for those uncovered by police, since they are already known.

Secondly, a potentially bigger problem that may not yet be recognized by many NGOs, because it is not explicitly expressed in the guidelines, is that these permits will be issued only to those who have no status in Canada. Those with legal visitor visas, work permits, student visas, etc., will not receive a TRP but will keep their other visa. The visitor visas, student visas, etc., do not give the victims access to services, so they will not be of much help.

Victims with a TRP of six months or under cannot apply for work permits. I realize the first permit is for reflection only, but how easy will it be to get further ones longer than six months when it is left to the discretion of the officer?

Third, and maybe the most serious problem, is that there is no money allocated to finance services to victims; therefore, there are still no services.

I believe B.C. and Quebec are the only two provinces seriously looking at providing services, and B.C. has a plan that I have included as annex A. However, without financial resources, it cannot be implemented. How can victims with a TRP, which doesn't even allow them to work, provide for themselves for months?

Fourth, the guidelines do not provide for victims who want to return to their country. There is no provision for a dignified return for those wanting to return home. In fact, they may end up in a Catch-22. They can get a TRP and ask their own country to pay for their trip, but many countries are not helpful for a variety of reasons. They can be deported from Canada, but this will not be done if they have a TRP, because they have status. They would have to let the TRP lapse and have no services. Plus, a deportation is not a dignified departure, and they will still be considered illegal immigrants, not even being able to return to Canada without ministerial permission. In all of these scenarios, Canada does not recognize its responsibilities and the fact that it was Canadian demand that brought them here in the first place.

Decriminalization of prostitution is often recommended to cut down on trafficking. I believe in decriminalization of victims because it will allow them to report abusers much more freely, but complete decriminalization of the sex industry has not worked in helping the victims in countries that have tried it. In fact, in many cases, things have worsened. Only about 15% have registered, because even though the work is legal, many still don't want to be identified as sex workers. There will also be those with medical problems who can't register, but that doesn't mean they will stop working. Many don't want the additional expenses of taxes, registration, medicals, etc.

It is also naive to think that pimps and johns, who are often violent, will become less violent because the work is now legal. Victims who are afraid of them will not readily report them, just as battered wives rarely report abusive husbands. It will be more dangerous, because it will be harder for police to get warrants to check on brothels because they are now legal. Brothel owners will be able to get work permits for foreign workers who may, in reality, be victims of trafficking, just as some of the tabletop dancers are victims. It just gives them better coverage.

Finally, the one group that is never considered in the question of decriminalization is the families of the johns. They, too, have rights to be protected. Instead, what I suggest is that Canada look at the Swedish model, which has apparently proven to be helpful.

These are our recommendations: that NGOs be consulted on future guidelines, regulations, and services to be provided; that financial resources be made available for services to victims of trafficking; that dignified and safe arrangements be made for victims who wish to return to their own country; that protection and services to victims be put into Canadian law; and that persons who are not victims of the narrow interpretation of trafficking, but who are victims of exploitation and other criminal offences, be given some sort of protection from automatic deportation if they self-identify.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Are you closing this, Ms. Isaacs? Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Deborah Isaacs

I just have one more sentence.

The complete decriminalization of prostitution should not be done.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

When I raise my finger, it's to indicate about the last minute, so that you can move toward wrapping up. We can then get some of your points in through the question and answer section of our meeting.

Barbara, would you like to go forward?

11:20 a.m.

Barbara Kryszko Coordinator, Action Alert, Coalition Against Trafficking in Women - International

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women enthusiastically welcomes this occasion to address the issue of trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation. The coalition is an international non-government organization that has been promoting women's human rights for over 18 years.

Trafficking in women and girls for sexual exploitation is a form of violence against women. When a woman or girl is reduced to a commodity to be bought and sold, raped, beaten, and psychologically devastated, her fundamental human rights and dignity are repeatedly violated.

Sex trafficking and prostitution are inextricably linked. The demand for prostituted women and girls is the engine or the root cause that commences and drives the global crisis of sex trafficking. By cutting off demand from buyers, governments eliminate the major source of illicit revenue and profit for traffickers--the payments of buyers--thus reducing the incentive for trafficking.

The coalition has been involved in the drafting of anti-trafficking legislation throughout the world in several jurisdictions. It was involved throughout the drafting stages of the United Nations Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children, also known as the Palermo Protocol, supplementing the Convention against Transnational Organized Crime, which to date has 110 states parties, including Canada.

With the Palermo Protocol, the international community has agreed upon a definition of trafficking in persons. We can't stress enough the importance that this definition be used and implemented in its entirety. Unfortunately, Canada has failed to use the complete protocol definition in the legislation that has passed thus far. For instance, the protocol definition protects not only those victims who are trafficked by means of force, coercion, abduction, or deception, but also those who are pushed into exploitation by means of abuse of the victim's vulnerability.

The recent European trafficking convention, which is consistent with the UN protocol and its definition, includes the following explanatory note:

By abuse of a position of vulnerability is meant abuse of any situation in which the person involved has no real and acceptable alternative to submitting to the abuse. The vulnerability may be of any kind, whether physical, psychological, emotional, family related, social, or economic. The situation might involve insecurity or illegality of the victim's administrative status, economic dependence, or fragile health. In short, the situation can be of any state of hardship in which a human being is impelled to accept being exploited.

Further, the explanatory report summarizes that the means must be contemplated under the definition to include:

Abduction of women for sexual exploitation, enticement of children for use in pedophile or prostitution rings, violence by pimps to keep prostitutes under their thumb, taking advantage of an adolescent's or adult's vulnerability, whether or not resulting from sexual assault, or abusing the economic and security or poverty of an adult hoping to better their own or their family's lot.

Indeed, in recognizing the wide and inclusive scope of the trafficking definition, as well as the close relationship between prostitution and sex trafficking, the UN special rapporteur on trafficking in persons has found the following:

For the most part, prostitution as actually practised in the world usually does satisfy the elements of trafficking. It is rare that one finds a case in which the path to prostitution and/or a person’s experiences within prostitution do not involve, at the very least, an abuse of power and/or an abuse of vulnerability.

Power and vulnerability in this context must be understood to include power disparities based on gender, race, ethnicity and poverty. Put simply, the road to prostitution and the life within “the life” is rarely one marked by empowerment or adequate options.

Thus it is imperative that policies and practices addressing sex trafficking also address prostitution, since so many prostituted persons have been trafficked.

Another key aspect of the definition of trafficking of the Palermo Protocol is paragraph 3(b), which states that “the consent of a person” shall be “irrelevant” where any of the means in paragraph 3(a) have been used. In order to protect all victims of trafficking, including those who may initially “consent” to their exploitation and who have been abused because of their position of vulnerability, it is crucial to respect the entire definition of trafficking so that traffickers cannot use consent of the victim in their defence.

Thus it may be that some trafficked women are aware that they may be prostituted in their country of destination, and may even have been involved in prostitution in their home countries. This so-called consent is a reflection of the deeply desperate situations in which many women live and should not exempt the traffickers from legal responsibility when the means of trafficking are used and the element of exploitation becomes present.

The UN protocol is clear that trafficked persons, including those in prostitution, are no longer considered criminals, but crime victims, and have a right to extensive protection. For instance, article 6 provides that each state party consider implementing measures to assist in a victim's recovery, including access to medical, psychological, material assistance, housing, employment, and educational and training opportunities. Canada should provide this comprehensive assistance to victims, and it currently falls short in its legislation and funding, as my colleague has pointed out.

Since I'm limited in time, I will just point out that the Palermo Protocol also has a provision on demand, and a country's approach to prostitution is critical in having an impact on the demand. We support the Swedish model, which I know you've heard about several times, and are concerned about countries where prostitution is legalized, since the demand for both legal and illegal prostitution increases, as does the incidence of trafficking. While some local jurisdictions in Canada have made efforts to target the demand, more comprehensive national efforts are necessary to combat trafficking by eradicating the demand.

Finally, I have a few recommendations based upon our extensive research and experience.

We urge the committee study to enforce implementation of preventative measures, such as public education campaigns, about the harms of trafficking in prostitution, including campaigns targeting men and boys to challenge the attitudes and practices of potential perpetrators of sexual exploitation.

We endorse increased support and services for survivors of both international and domestic trafficking and prostitution, and the promotion of effective laws against trafficking, prostitution, and related forms of sexual exploitation consistent with the UN protocol, including provisions criminalizing the demand for trafficking and prostitution.

We recommend the development of training programs for government bodies, such as law enforcement and immigration, to hold perpetrators, including traffickers, pimps, and buyers, accountable rather than criminalizing the victim.

Finally, we urge rejection of government policies promoting prostitution, whether through legalization or decriminalization of the sex industry.

Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

Ms. Sushko.

11:25 a.m.

Irene Sushko National President, Ukrainian Canadian Congress

Honourable Chair and members of Parliament, recently in the “Canada/World” section of the The Hamilton Spectator, the headline in big, bold letters read “12 Million People in Bondage”. It immediately captured the reader's attention. The question in one's mind became, “What is this issue that has 12 million people in bondage?” With true astonishment, the reader soon realizes that those referred to as being in bondage are in fact victims of human trafficking.

The issue of trafficking is of great concern to the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, its 27 member organizations, and the general Ukrainian Canadian community, as it is to all other citizens of Canada. Trafficking is a high-profit, low-risk enterprise, often with strong links to organized crime. Trafficking across international borders, as we know, affects more than 800,000 persons a year, and most are trafficked into the sex trade either against their will or under coercive circumstances. Sadly, 80% of these are women and girls and up to 50% are minors. Trafficking of humans constitutes horrific acts of slavery, the shameful assault on the dignity of children, the exploitation of the vulnerable for profit. It has become the second fastest-growing crime in the world.

More and more women are leaving their homelands in search of a better life and are ending up as victims of trafficking in human beings and of prostitution. They are promised honest jobs, but upon arrival are forced to work as prostitutes to pay off the cost of their trip. In pursuing their dream, they find themselves living a nightmare.

Victor Malarek's book, The Natashas, very explicitly reveals many of the ways in which this criminal element carries out its mission. The true-life incidents related in this book are shocking and unbelievable.

I have a brief quote from his book:

What happens to most trafficked women, whether they were tricked, abducted or willing is criminal. They are forced into situations of profound terror, comparable to being held hostage. They are immediately deprived of their travel documents and their every movement is tightly controlled and restricted. Potential buyers test-drive the women, much like the way we test-drive new cars.

We cannot allow these atrocities against humankind to continue. Although we are pleased with the announcement this past summer by the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration regarding some new measures to assist the victims of human trafficking in Canada, there certainly is a great deal more that must be done in this respect.

As a result of a round table on this topic chaired by Irena Soltys, chair of the coalition against trafficking, the Ukrainian Canadian Congress passed a resolution in October of 2004 directing the congress to sensitize the Government of Canada and relevant federal agencies on this issue and to support projects initiated within the community to raise awareness of this horrific crime.

One of the ways we chose to implement this resolution was to partner with Member of Parliament Joy Smith to raise awareness of this crime against humanity. As well, we have addressed the issue with both the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration and the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

The following are some of the concerns raised during our discussions, along with some recommendations.

Those guilty of these crimes against humanity must be found and appropriately dealt with. Existing legislation must be strictly enforced, including penalties of up to life imprisonment and fines of up to $1 million for conviction for trafficking in persons.

Trafficked persons may be reluctant to go to police or to doctors for assistance; therefore, a 1-800 hotline number must be established and clearly made available. Shelters must be made available, where victims can seek refuge and protection. Welcome packages must include the above information, as well as instructions regarding the protection of one's passport.

Customs officers must be made aware of the intricacies of the traffickers and the influence they have on the victims and must be skilled in recognizing these improprieties. A service-wide mandatory training program must be initiated.

And we're suggesting the age of consent must be raised from 14 to 16.

Internationally, the Government of Canada should work toward greater cooperation in striving to eliminate transnational trafficking trade and organized crime rings, working with consulates of sending countries to ensure trafficking awareness of visa applicants, and rehabilitating and assisting victims' safe return home. Canada's role as a signatory of the UN Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons must be made a top priority.

Together we must strive for total abolition of human trafficking. Future generations will not be helped by those who turn a blind eye to this vicious crime today. We have a duty in this respect, and we cannot stand idly by and allow these atrocities to continue. We must turn our outrage into action, and we very strongly urge the Canadian government to be a leader in this respect.

Thank you.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you very much.

Mr. Perrin.

11:30 a.m.

Benjamin Perrin Advisor to the Board, The Future Group

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Good morning.

Does every member of the committee have a copy of our brief? I'll be referring to it in the interests of time. Okay, great. So I'll submit that for the committee's consideration. I'm just going to focus today on what I think are the top level recommendations and proposals that The Future Group has.

To start with, we're honoured to be here. Our organization was founded in 2000 by a group of university students sitting around a lake and talking about this problem of human trafficking that we heard about six years ago. It's an honour to be here finally in Ottawa to talk before you today about it. So thank you very much for the opportunity, and I applaud you for studying this problem.

As many of you know, our organization started doing its work overseas. We've led on-the-ground fieldwork projects with victims in Cambodia, Myanmar, Romania, Moldova, and, most recently, this summer in Ecuador and in Cameroon. Our attention focused back on Canada, on Calgary--I'm from Calgary originally--when the police raided a massage parlour and found, lo and behold, women from Southeast Asia. People have since forgotten about that story; that was in 2003.

Since then we've started to focus on this issue in Canada on a policy level. Based on our experience overseas, we've developed essentially a three-point framework. It's outlined on page 1. It starts to balance some of the concerns this committee has heard today and in previous witness testimony about how do you balance the law enforcement aspects, the human rights aspects, the economic aspects. This is our approach.

First is prevention of human trafficking by working with source countries to address the root causes, which involve a lack of knowledge, so educating at-risk children. Organizations educate 80,000 at-risk children in rural Cambodia, for example, dealing with the situation there. Also, direct foreign aid to increasing economic opportunities for young women. That's the first part of the framework.

The second part of the framework is protection of trafficking victims. This includes both the rescue and then subsequently the rehabilitation, or where appropriate, repatriation, and then their reintegration into society, whether it's appropriate for them to go home or not.

The final part is the prosecution of traffickers and commercial sex users in criminal proceedings. So it's all three that you need; otherwise, it's just a drop in the bucket and progress is difficult, if not impossible.

Many of you are familiar with the report that our organization published in March of this year called Falling Short of the Mark. It was an international study on the treatment of human trafficking victims, and I'm embarrassed to say Canada got a failing grade. The summary of our report is in pages 2 to 4 of our brief, and if you're interested in the full version with all the comparative examples, it's on our website, which is www.thefuturegroup.org. I apologize for the shameless plug, Madam Chair, of our website.

I do want to draw your attention in particular to page 3 of our brief. This is a case study that is cited in our report in a footnote. We were told after our report that, no, there's no evidence that trafficking victims are deported, it's all anecdotal, it doesn't happen. Here's an official report from the Federal Court judicially reviewing a decision of the Immigration and Refugee Board.

It's the case of Katalin Varga, one of the few that made it up this high. You can only wonder how she had the legal resources to make it so high. I don't know; someone must have been supporting her. I'd like you to read on page 4 here, and this is a summary of the case from the reporter:

Varga's doctor indicated she was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and would suffer a complete psychological breakdown if she were returned to Hungary.

She was found to be a bona fide human trafficking victim. Canada's response: deport her. This is the current state of the law. We now have interim guidelines that begin to address this problem. Our organization applauded the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration when these were announced. I agree with the comments earlier; it's a good starting point, and more can be done.

Some of you are aware I was involved in that process as well. I'm not here to talk about my capacity in that, but just to say that our approach has been internationally that you want to make measurable steps. I would caution the committee against trying to come up with a grand national plan all at once. First of all, by the time you come up with the plan, the traffickers have already moved on.

We need to support projects that are working, focus our efforts in areas of greatest concern, both geographically...and I'd point out that Vancouver, with the coming Vancouver Winter Olympics, should be a major concern of this committee. By 2010, if Canada does not have its act together on combating human trafficking, there will be a surge of human trafficking in British Columbia. International practice at every major world sporting event in the last decade, in addition to peacekeeping missions, has shown that a large influx of that hard currency and foreigners with a lot of time on their hands and a sense of impunity will essentially drive this industry. You have to approach it from a crude angle, which is a business angle sometimes, and you can see that the traffickers will see this as a windfall.

I'll leave for your consideration our recommendations, which are set out in our brief on page 7. We've called for the creation of a counter-trafficking office. I'd like to answer questions, if you have them, about why that's needed, but I'll have to defer those to the question period, since I'm out of time.

Thank you again for the opportunity today.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Thank you all very much. I'm sure the opportunities to get to those points will arise as we go through the question and answer period.

We'll start with Ms. Neville.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all for coming here today and for bringing the breadth and diversity of your experience to the committee.

I have a number of questions. My first question is--and I think each of you touched on it--on the temporary resident permit for victims of trafficking. I think you spoke of it, in some ways, as a first step, but as not adequate to meet needs. I'm wondering what your suggestions are. I'm going to put my questions out there, and if I've got time, I'll come back with more.

The other issue that I'm particularly concerned about--and I don't know that any of you spoke to it at all, but I would welcome your comments--is Canada as a source country for victims of trafficking. What is your experience? What is your knowledge? What recommendations do you have? We've had representation before the committee particularly as it relates to aboriginal women. I'd like to hear from you on that issue.

11:40 a.m.

Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Deborah Isaacs

I can say I have heard of cases in the Vancouver area, especially because of the age of 14, in which they use the method of a boyfriend developing a relationship, which then leads to crossing the border into the States, especially into the southern United States. We've had several local workers who have tried to prevent this by approaching the police, and they say they cannot do anything because of the age of consent. They've ended up having to go down to the southern United States--because it's only once they've crossed the border that any action can be taken--and they've gone to bring them back.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Can I just ask for clarification, Ms. Isaacs? How old are the boyfriends?

11:40 a.m.

Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Deborah Isaacs

They're of all ages.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Fourteen-year-olds are protected under the law right now.

11:40 a.m.

Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Deborah Isaacs

That's when it's over so many years' difference.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

If it's a 16-year-old trafficking a child, that's one thing, but if it's anybody over 18, they can be prosecuted and prosecuted hard.

11:40 a.m.

Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Deborah Isaacs

Some of them are not.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Okay, thank you.

11:40 a.m.

Project Coordinator, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity of the Good Shepherd, Separated Children Intervention and Orientation Network

Deborah Isaacs

They use all sorts of means.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Judy Sgro

Would someone else like to answer Ms. Neville's question?

11:40 a.m.

Advisor to the Board, The Future Group

Benjamin Perrin

Just briefly, on your first question, with respect to the interim guidelines, this is the challenge that I spoke about earlier, which is that there are so many pieces to the puzzle. As you know, there is a 17-member interdepartmental working group. The analogy I came up with is that it's like having a three-legged race, but it's a 17-person, three-legged race. You're going to go as slowly as the last person who's with you.

The reason I make that analogy is that you have these immigration guidelines, which are designed to do what they can from an immigration perspective, but then you also have law enforcement pieces. Then you have provincial matters with respect to housing and legal aid and these other additional pieces that are really required to get the whole package. A lot of the concerns that are being raised are about the fact that the guidelines don't do enough. Well, they can't. Certainly there are areas in which there are gaps, and they were identified I think quite well by Ms. Isaacs. I think the process of improving on the guidelines is one that should happen once there's been time to see how they work in practice.

I should add that it's been reported in the media that there were six women who were offered the protection of the guidelines already this summer. They decided to turn them down. That, actually, is not necessarily a bad thing. When the media was coming up...before the guidelines, people were saying that anyone could claim to be a trafficking victim and try to cram their way in. That's not happening, and that hasn't happened in other jurisdictions.

Canada should be confident in offering sufficient protection, as required under the international protocols, so that this can be carefully done in a way that will not abuse our country's generosity.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Does anybody else want to comment on Canada being a source country for trafficking?

11:40 a.m.

Coordinator, Action Alert, Coalition Against Trafficking in Women - International

Barbara Kryszko

I would, just quickly. The studies that I've seen in terms of aboriginal women being disproportionately in prostitution compared to other women are really quite shocking. There have been studies done in Vancouver and other parts of the country, and it's a concern that needs to be addressed. That, unfortunately, is something that happens globally. Minorities and populations that are either underrepresented or have a history of oppression have been way overrepresented in prostitution.

I think that's something the committee should look at.