Status of Women Committee on May 3rd, 2007

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

And finally, you made reference to the fact that your friend was living in a substandard situation and couldn't afford the rent, couldn't afford to manage.

In Ontario, I was a member of a government that put in place an affordable housing policy, and we managed to build 50,000 units of affordable housing: co-ops, non-profits, supportive housing, and there was always--always--an accessibility element attached. There had to be so many units that were designed for people with disabilities, with accessibility problems.

Is that something we should be looking at in terms of a national strategy? Do we need a national affordable housing program?

[Carmela Hutchison]

Absolutely, and with dedicated funding, but it has to be dedicated for that purpose because otherwise it will get absorbed into other pots, and it's really tempting to do that.

Also, even the legislation for private homeowners.... I was fortunate enough to have a mortgage. I have a kitchen that's accessible, except that the appraiser told me if the counters were even one inch different in height, it would change the value of the house. I didn't have the money to come up with more of a downpayment, so I have beautiful accessible cupboards that are at 32 inches when they should be at 29 inches. So those are the kinds of impacts.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, thank you.

In 2001, the forum for federal-provincial-territorial ministers created a report. These were ministers responsible for Status of Women. The report identified factors that influence women's autonomy and their economic security. Among those were education and training, wages, balancing work and family responsibilities, unpaid work, and violence against women--and that included workplace harassment and sexual harassment.

Could you comment on these factors? They affect all women, but how do they affect disabled women in particular?

[Carmela Hutchison]

First, when you are disabled, if you are in a work site where you book transportation and you don't have a lot of money and you've been sexually harassed, how do you leave the workplace if your transportation isn't due for another two hours?

In terms of getting a job and keeping a job, the choice is ending the employment or continuing to face the harassment for the economic benefit. So that's certainly where violence against women definitely comes into play.

Education and training is so important as well. Again, I mentioned a quadriplegic lady who's taking English at a community college. She wants to try to get social work. She goes down to the disability resource centre, and they do not have the software program that allows her to write her exam. So that is a barrier right there.

Wages are certainly a factor because many things are not provided for economically. So without the economic provision of disability supports for aids, medication, or if you need a speaking program to go on your computer...all those things are barriers. So provision of those things and the absence of wages would also go a long way. But we really need the wages. They're not keeping pace with the cost of living.

The clawbacks that were mentioned are very important as well. Unpaid work certainly is something that needs to be recorded. Even in our own organization--I am involved with a mental health organization in Alberta--we exceeded the value of our grant just on the volunteer labour, but the really sad thing is, the volunteer labour is valued at Stats Canada for that particular industry at about $25 an hour, and we can only pay our executive director $15. Happily, that's not the case with DAWN Canada. We're able to do much better there, and we thank you for that, but that is the reality in other areas of the country.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

I'm wondering whether there's a difference in the experiences of urban and rural women in regard to managing and achieving some semblance of economic security.

[Carmela Hutchison]

I would be happy to answer that. I am a rural woman, and incidentally, I have a disability plan through my employer and CPP disability, so I am also still a taxpayer and the main income earner of my family, even though my husband is employed. He is a cook and doesn't make enough that it would support us.

I've been very fortunate. I often say that I'm sort of like a princess of the disability community because I have these resources—a vehicle, a husband, and a home—and so many people would give anything to have those things.

For rural women, access to care and support is absolutely crucial. My quadriplegic friend lives 20 minutes down the road from me, and she has had to resort to having a live-in caregiver. The live-in caregiver, under one program, is allowed to do home support chores, but under the funding for another program is not.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much, Carmela.

You've given such insightful presentations today, and I thank you for that so very much. I would like to ask each of you, Lyne and Nancy and Bonnie and Carmela, to take two minutes to have a wrap-up of things you want to say to the committee.

Could we start with Lyne--or Nancy; that's fine.

[Nancy Moreau]

Our message is that the emphasis should be placed on employability programs. That's our niche, but it's also because we firmly believe that employability enhancement will enable women to become more financially self-sufficient. In that case, they'll be less dependent on government benefits and in a better position to make their own decisions. They'll also be able to have a little more power and control over all other aspects of their lives.

In our view, this is a real triggering factor in getting out of insecurity, that is to say in having access to a job that corresponds to theirs aspirations, interests, abilities and takes into account needs, having regard to their limitations. That's the message we've come to give you today.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much.

Lyne, would you like to make comments as well?

[Lyne Vincent]

I agree with Nancy: the table is set in Quebec to foster the promotion, the introduction of innovative projects. There are specialized employment services that welcome persons with disabilities in all regions of Quebec, and we are working in cooperation with them on a daily basis. There are employers that are currently coming knocking on our door in order to put innovative projects in place. People from Les Rôtisseries St-Hubert restaurant chain came knocking on our door to put an innovative project in place. It was a structured project to enable them to hire persons with disabilities.

So we're ready to develop projects. However, as Nancy said earlier, before promoting them excessively, we have to have means equal to our ambitions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

[Bonnie Brayton]

I will defer I think to my colleague Carmela. I have been in my position exactly two days. I'm here more as an observer than anything else. I'm honoured to be here and to be representing DAWN, but I think I'll give the floor to Carmela. She's very eloquent and she'll finish well for all of us. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

[Carmela Hutchison]

Thank you—no pressure there.

Basically, to sum up, we've talked a lot about the need for economic security of women. Women are basically the caregivers and nurturers, even now, of families.

There are many anecdotes. One that struck me in particular was a Photovoices project, which I will include in a later brief. It shows a woman and her home. There aren't even doors on her cupboards, she's in low-rental housing, trying to care for a schizophrenic son, and she herself has no legs.

These are the kinds of things that are happening. Even in my household, I have my husband, who lives with ADHD and depression. We also had another roommate whom we took in, a man who was living in the only accommodation he could afford, which was a basement suite in an apartment. It was in an actual apartment building, but the sewer kept backing up in it. It took us five years to convince him to come up out of that and live in light and decent surroundings.

Those are the kinds of supports that disabled women need: housing, child care, transportation—think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Those basic investments will lead people to explore and will empower them to try to make something different happen.

I think there's no better investment than the investment in the Canadian people, and that includes the disabled women of this country.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much. It has been of great benefit to our status of women committee to have you all here today. We are the ones who are honoured to have you here. Thank you.

I will suspend the meeting for three minutes, and then we'll go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

[Public proceedings resume]

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

We will resume the meeting now.

We have just a couple of quick items. Madame Demers has delayed her motion.

There are two things, actually. If anyone here has questions for HRDC and the finance officials, please make sure they are sent to the clerk no later than Wednesday, May 9.

Yes.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

For clarification, if we don't submit written questions, will we still have the opportunity to ask questions coming out of the discussion? This is unprecedented that we've had to submit requests for written questions.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Michelle Tittley]

Perhaps I could clarify. The witnesses, the officials from the departments, are scheduled to appear before the committee.

Just in light of the broad scope of the subject, they're seeking to be able to provide as thorough responses as possible. So if the questions aren't specific....

They're just looking to have information ready for the members. It's not conditional on their appearance. They're just looking to be prepared. So if you have specific questions to submit, I will relay that to the department. If not, at least if you have perhaps some topics that you would be interested in having more information on, that would help them to prepare for their appearance.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Thank you.

On the second item, with regard to Minister Oda and her appearance here, the Canadian Heritage votes have been referred to the committee of the whole; therefore, we no longer have the mandate to study the estimates.

Would the committee like to call Minister Oda and/or officials from Status of Women Canada to speak to the reports on plans and priorities? The minister previously indicated that she would be available on Wednesday, May 30, from 3:30 to 4:30. However, that, apparently, is no longer possible, and the clerk previously requested May 17. So I am in your hands in terms of a further request.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I have just a question for clarification.

I assume this means the minister is doing the estimates in the House and the estimates will include both the Status of Women and the heritage department, not just Heritage. Is that understood?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

Yes, that's my understanding.

Is there any further discussion?

Would the committee like to invite the minister to come in regard to talking about reports on plans and priorities?

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes.

[Bruce Stanton, Conservative, Simcoe North, ON]

Madam Chair, if she's doing the estimates before the committee of the whole, going back to your question, do we want to have somebody from Status of Women Canada come and do a presentation here before those estimates?

I understood there is no way the minister can make it before May 31, so our option really is, do we want officials from the department to come and do it here, in addition to that? I would assume members of this committee will probably participate in the committee of the whole presentation when that occurs, presumably in the last week of May.

Is that the question, then? Are we asking about the department or the minister?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Irene Mathyssen]

I'm in your hands. There was an indication that the committee still desired to have the minister, and there was an indication that every effort would be made in terms of having her come here to speak with the committee. So my question is, shall we continue to press the minister to come and speak in regard to reports on plans and priorities, or, as Mr. Stanton has indicated, would we like to see officials from Status of Women Canada?

Ms. Neville.