Evidence of meeting #39 for Status of Women in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was justice.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

June 5th, 2008 / 9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

We have committee business. We have a motion from Ms. Mathyssen.

Ms. Mathyssen, would you like to read the motion?

9:55 a.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It reads:

Whereas the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights has not met to address legislative matters since March 11, 2008, and is therefore not functioning in a meaningful manner and,

Whereas the content and subject matter of Bill C-484, an Act to amend the Criminal Code (injuring or causing the death of an unborn child while committing an offence), could be more properly addressed by the Standing Committee on the Status of Women,

Therefore be it resolved that the Standing Committee on the Status of Women request that the House of Commons refer Bill C-484 to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Mathyssen, before I allow for any discussion, I have been advised by the clerk that this falls outside our mandate.

Our mandate, if you want me to read it, in terms of our powers, is that we are not empowered to do anything that deals with justice bills.

We are here to do program and policy objectives of the department and the effectiveness in implementation of the same; the immediate, medium, and long-term expenditure plans and effectiveness of implementation of the same by the department; an analysis of the relative success of the department as measured by the results obtained as compared with the stated objectives; and other matters relating to the mandate, management, organization, or operation of the department, as the committee sees fit—the department being Status of Women Canada.

We are not under the Department of Justice, so I have been advised that this is out of order in this committee.

I am at the will of the committee if the committee wishes to, but I don't think I have the power to take this recommendation.

Ms. Mathyssen.

9:55 a.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

I understand that this is a very unusual motion, and I recognize that it is unique inasmuch as it hasn't been done. I sought advice in regard to this, and that advice basically was that by virtue of the importance of Bill C-484 and its impact on women, it was incumbent that we try to look at the possibility of having the bill come to this committee, because it does impact the lives of women in a way that I don't think many of the MPs who may have supported the bill at second reading understand, and, without changes, this bill will go back to the House of Commons.

There's only a 60-day window. It will go back without any consideration of the bits and pieces of it that will negatively impact women. So by virtue of what I see as a very disconcerting situation in regard to women and their ability to choose, I thought it important that we try.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Minna.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

There are a couple of options, I think, Madam Chair, with this one.

One option is that we could study it, even take it upon ourselves, for that matter, to study it, and since we just did a report on gender analysis, report to the House on the standing committee's perception or feelings about this, without being in a position, obviously, of being able to amend the specific bill, as we don't have it officially. We could do that.

The other option is that we could ask, if Ms. Mathyssen agreed, to have a joint meeting with the justice committee, for them to be able to have input from our committee, and obviously for it then to be officially reported through justice, if that is the only way it can be done.

We might look at it in two ways.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Okay.

Ms. Neville, and then Mr. Stanton.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you.

Ms. Minna preempted some of what I was going to suggest.

What we're looking at here is the content and the subject matter of Bill C-484, and I agree completely with Ms. Mathyssen's comment. This is a bill that has a profound impact on women. It should at least be subject to a gender analysis, if nothing else.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Exactly, so we could do that.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

We could do that, but I think it's important that we look at the content and subject matter of the bill, that we put forward our comments. I understand the justice committee doesn't meet. I would agree with Ms. Minna that a joint meeting with them would be helpful. If they won't meet with us, we can report to them. But I think it's important that the status of women committee look at the content and subject matter of Bill C-484.

I can tell you, Madam Chair—and I'm sure my office is no different from many others—that many women across the country have a profound concern and anxiety about this bill, and somebody has to look at it.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Neville, I agree with your sentiment and that of Ms. Mathyssen, Ms. Minna, and all our committee members who felt violated by this bill. But the content of this bill does not come under our purview. Therefore, we can't study the bill, but we can study the intent of this bill from a gender perspective.

Since I've responded to you, I have to get Mr. Stanton to—

10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

But it's not on the bill.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

May I seek your indulgence?

Ms. Mathyssen, there are certain aspects of that bill that say “mother of the child”. Maybe we could take the technicality of it and see. We still have to get some approval as to whether we can study that bill.

Give us a minute to consult.

I'm trying to find a solution to this problem. The problem is that it involves the Criminal Code, and the statute does not come under the heritage department. That's my problem here. Therefore, I'm trying to find a compromise somewhere.

Mr. Stanton, did you want to make a statement?

10 a.m.

Conservative

Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First of all, I certainly speak in support of the ruling you made on the motion. I think the consideration here is that the content of this bill has to do with the Criminal Code, so we have to consider that our respective colleagues from both sides of the table will ultimately have this in front of them.

I understand that the justice committee is on the cusp of getting back into a process. I think we need to let them do their work.

Insofar as members of this committee go, Ms. Mathyssen has made some points here about the potential implications for women. That presumes, of course, that this bill will ultimately pass by the House in its current form. We really don't know that. I think it would be premature, until our colleagues on the justice committee have had an opportunity to look at this bill, to consider that.

That said, on the second point, you suggested that our committee might be able to undertake a look at the issues around the introduction of this bill. The only question I would have on that, Madam Chair, is if this committee undertook a study on that topic related to the bill, would it be possible that that report to the House wouldn't be accepted because it's not consistent with our mandate? It's a question more than anything. I understand, with regard to the rules, if we table a report in the House that's not consistent with our mandate, that it in fact couldn't be put on the list of reports by committees.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

We could study the subject matter. Because the subject matter deals with the mother and the child--because it's gender-related--we could study it.

The flip side of the coin is that because we're dealing with the Criminal Code, the way this motion is worded, we can't do much about it. If we study the impact, then perhaps we have a way around it.

Ms. Mathyssen, you received some advice, and perhaps you can give us in writing what that advice was. Perhaps the clerk can then take that and see where she can go with it. We really have to work within the technical parameters of our statutes. Our statute, which relates to the department and which is the statute governing the status of women, is a statute of the Department of Canadian Heritage, not the Department of Justice.

Madame Demers.

10:05 a.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

Madam Chair, I listened carefully to what you said. I agree with you and Mr. Stanton that this falls under the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. We know that it is not sitting, as the chair doesn't like to talk about the topics on the agenda. However, Madam Chair, your proposal to do an analysis of the kinds of repercussions of such a bill on all women seems quite appropriate. If we cannot make amendments to the bill, as you said, we could make recommendations to the House on the possible consequences that we will have discovered in committee.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

We can study the subject matter and make recommendations, as long as we don't study the bill. We don't have the bill. That's not part of our purview.

Mr. Calkins.

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I've been on this committee now for about six minutes, but I am a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Perhaps I can just add a little bit from that perspective.

I know we have an impasse, and I'm not here to get into the blame game about that impasse. I can tell you, though, that the committee is working very hard to try to get around the impasse we have right now. I do believe that discussions are going on, and those discussions should bear some fruit here in the near while.

Given the fact that Bill C-484 is going to approach the 60-day time limit in the near future, it does need to appear before a committee. I do believe, because it is a Criminal Code matter, and it makes minor amendments to the Criminal Code--some people think they're significant and others think that...and I'm not here to debate the opinion of that.

If I can add some assurance to this committee, I'm very confident that the justice committee will work very hard to try to meet so that we can discuss the substantive issues pertaining to Bill C-484 before the 60-day expiry date, before it gets reported back to the House unamended.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

Ms. Neville.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

When is the 60-day expiry?

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Mr. Calkins, do you know?

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Wetaskiwin, AB

It would be hard for me to say right now because it's 60 days when the House is sitting. If we go right until June 20, it will happen some time in September. If we don't sit until June 20, it all depends on the number of sitting days in the House, Madam Chair. From that perspective, if we sat right until the very end, I think it would be the first three or four days when we resume in the fall. But if we don't sit until June 20, then of course it would go beyond that.

So we still have a couple of weeks left in this particular sitting, and I know that would be a matter of precedent if the justice committee could agree to meet and discuss those issues, rather than some of the other issues that are stonewalling the committee.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Ms. Neville, and then Ms. Mathyssen.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

I think it's increasingly important, Madam Chair, that we have an opportunity to look at the discussion of the issue raised in it, and that you request a joint meeting with the justice committee at the same time to express the concerns and opinions of committee members on this bill.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Okay.

Ms. Mathyssen.