Evidence of meeting #34 for Status of Women in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coverage.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Grant Schellenberg  Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada
Ted Wannell  Assistant Director, Labour and Household Surveys Analysis Division, Statistics Canada

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Order, please. We're ready to begin.

Mr. Schellenberg is going to be the presenter for this group of witnesses, and don't forget we also have some in camera business and some work to do. So we shall begin.

I want to welcome the witnesses. I wanted to say that one of things we're trying to do is to look at pensions for women, and we're looking at it under three headings, as you no doubt know. We're looking at it under the headings of private pensions, public pensions, and whether there's room for pensions for women who have not been in the paid workforce during their lives. Those are the three things that we're looking at, and we hope you can give us information.

We'll begin. You have 10 minutes to present, and you've given us gorgeous graphs, as you always do, and then we will question you thoroughly.

Go ahead, Mr. Schellenberg.

3:30 p.m.

Grant Schellenberg Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Great. Thank you very much for having us here this afternoon.

The deck that you have in front of you is organized into two broad sections. In the first few slides we focus on working-age women and men in the paid labour force and the proportion of them who belong to an employer-sponsored pension plan or a registered pension plan, in slightly different terms. We're going to consider data from three different sources, focusing on the trends in pension coverage drawn from each of those data sources to piece together the best picture we can.

In the second part of the presentation we're going to shift our focus from working-age women who may or may not have pensions to women aged 65 and over and the income that they receive. There the key story is that over the past 25 years we've seen quite a profound shift in the working lives of women, as evidenced in their increasing labour force participation and their contributions to retirement savings programs, and these changes are reflected in the amounts and sources of income they receive.

If you turn to the first line graph, data on pension coverage can be drawn from a number of sources, each of which have various strengths and limitations. We were going to consider three of those sources. This chart is based on administrative data compiled on all registered pension plans in Canada, and it shows the share of paid workers aged 17 to 64 who have pension coverage.

Among men, as shown in the blue line, there has been an ongoing decline in pension coverage rates in Canada over the last 15 to 20 years, from around 47% to 48% in the late 1980s to about 38% in 2007. Among women, there was an increase in pension coverage rates between the mid-eighties and the early to mid-nineties, and as you see here, these data suggest that the pension coverage rate for women has remained fairly stable, at around 39%, over the last decade.

Turning to two other sources of data on the next table, which are taxation data and household survey data, what I want to do is focus on the trends within age groups and focus particularly on the trends and coverage rate between 1997 and 2006-07.

Considering, first, men on the right-hand side of the table, data from the taxation date in the surveys confirmed the downward trend in pension coverage rates, particularly among men 35 to 44 and 45 to 54 years, and you see here a magnitude of decline in the range of four to six percentage points over the last decade. When we look more closely at men aged 25 to 34, we see that pension coverage rates have stabilized or perhaps increased very modestly.

When we look at taxation data for women on the left-hand side of the table, we see that the tax data show again stability in the pension coverage rates among women 35 to 44 and 45 to 54 years. Although the survey data show something of an increase for women, this could do with the way that respondents to household surveys report group RRSPs, for example, and that's the difference between these data sources. Interestingly, both the taxation data and the survey data show increases in pension coverage rates among women aged 25 to 34 over the past decade.

Turning to the next table, in addition to trends and coverage, changes in the characteristics of pension plans have received considerable attention and public discussion. Here what we're considering is the shift from defined benefit plans to defined contribution plans. In a nutshell, a defined benefit plan is one where retirement benefits are established by a formula that's laid out in the pension plan, such as 2% per year of service based on earnings during some period, and employer contributions to the plan are not predetermined but based on actuarial valuations. A defined contribution plan is one where the contributions are based on a fixed amount or a percentage of the employee's earnings, and while contribution amounts are known, the amount of the retirement benefit is only known when the employee reaches retirement and that depends on things such as the rate of return.

Between 1991 and 2007 the number of pension plan members who belong to a defined contribution plan more than doubled, increasing from about 466,000 to 935,000. Those numbers do not include group RRSPs. Evidence from the 2005 Workplace and Employee Survey indicates that about 18% of employees have a group RRSP, which is something akin to a defined contribution plan.

There are two other points I would draw from this table.

First, among both women and men, the proportion of paid workers who have pension coverage is far higher in the public sector, well above 80%, than it is in the private sector, at 22% for women and 29% for men.

Secondly, most of those individuals who have a pension plan—over 90% in the public sector—have a defined benefit plan, while those in the private sector who belong to a pension plan less often have one. Among women, 59% have a defined benefit plan, 26% a defined contribution plan, and increasingly we're seeing the emergence of mixed plans, wherein you have characteristics of both DC and DB plans or employees within the same firm who may belong to one or the other of those plans; we see that in the mixed numbers.

Turning to the next slide, I want to shift our focus from working-age women and their pension coverage to women who are now aged 65 and over, and to the retirement income they receive. Over the past three decades, median incomes of the elderly in Canada have increased significantly. Between 1980 and 2007, the median incomes of elderly couples increased from about $30,000 to $47,000, and those are inflation-adjusted dollars. Among elderly women living alone, the median income increased from just under $15,000 in 1980 to about $22,000 in 2007.

As displayed on the next slide, women's increasing participation in the paid labour force and their contributions to retirement savings programs, such as the Canada and Quebec pension plans and registered retirement savings plans and RPPs, are one factor underlying these trends. In this slide, we consider the role played by the Canada and Quebec pension plans. On this chart, the black line shows the percentage of women aged 65 or older who receive income from CPP or QPP as measured on the percentage axis on the left. Between 1980 and 2006, the proportion of senior women in Canada receiving CPP or QPP benefits more than doubled, from 35% to 84%, and of those who are receiving benefits, the median amount, as shown by the red line and the axis on the right, increased from $3,100 to $5,500.

We can also look, as shown on the next slide, at these same trends in terms of RRSP pensions and superannuations. Again we look at the proportion of women aged 65 and over receiving income from this source and at the median amounts. As shown on the black line, the proportion of women receiving retirement income from RRSPs, pensions, and superannuations increased from 20% to 55% over this period, and the median amount received by recipients increased from $4,600 to $7,400.

Overall, the income that Canadian women now receive in old age reflects changes in their working lives and their participation in both retirement savings programs, both publicly and privately administered.

As seen on the next slide, the overall effects of these changes can be assessed by considering the total aggregate income received by all senior women in Canada. In 2006, women aged 65 and over received about $54 billion, up from about $20 billion in 1980. That overall increase, as we move towards the right of the chart, reflects increases in average income as well as the fact that there are more elderly women in Canada today now in absolute terms than there were 26 years ago. But what's particularly interesting about this chart is the growing proportion of total aggregate income received from the Canada and Quebec pension plans, as shown by the yellow area, and the growing proportion of income received from RRSPs, pensions, and superannuations, as shown by the red area.

To conclude, I want to highlight two points regarding the composition of income received by seniors.

On the next table, we look at how the composition of income received by seniors varies by where they are in the income distribution. This slide is taken from a recent Statistics Canada study that looked at seniors who had significant labour force attachment when they were younger; specifically, they had earnings of at least $10,000 at age 55.

The key point to be made here is, if we look at the column entitled “bottom quintile at age 55,” that people who were at the bottom of the income distribution at age 55 received the majority of their income from old age security, guaranteed income supplement, and the Canada/Quebec pension plans—62% of it—by the time they were aged 75 to 77. For those who were at the middle of the income distribution when they were 55, the proportion of income received from OAS, GIS, and C/QPP was around 43%, while pensions, superannuations, and other investments accounted for almost half of their income at age 75.

Finally, those who were at the top of the income distribution relied primarily on pensions, superannuation, and investments. The importance of transfers on this chart would be more evident for those at the bottom of the distribution if this study hadn't looked at people with strong labour force attachment at age 55.

From the final slide in this afternoon's presentation, we want to make the point that in spite of the growing share of income that seniors and senior women receive from retirement savings programs such as the Canada and Quebec pension plans, pensions, and RRSPs, many also receive income from the guaranteed income supplement. In 1981, 55% of women aged 65 or older received the guaranteed income supplement. In 2008, 40% did so. The share of women aged 65 to 69 receiving the GIS is indicated by the dotted red line; it's about 10 percentage points lower. This suggests that GIS receipt is higher among women who are in their seventies and eighties.

Thank you very much.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you very much. You have done just beautifully, on time.

We can start with Ms. Neville. There are seven minutes, and that includes questions and answers.

Anita.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you.

I'm not quite sure where to begin. On the very first slide, you talk about the percentage of paid workers with pension coverage by sex. How do you account for the figures you have here?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

Looking at the trends in the rising rate of pension coverage among women, we have a study now at Statistics Canada, currently in progress. When we look at the characteristics of women in 1987, 1997, and 2007, what we find is that pension coverage is more prevalent among individuals who have higher earnings, higher education, employment in certain industries, and/or who have union coverage. Women, and particularly those in their forties and early fifties, now have higher earnings than they used to; they have higher education than they used to; many of them are employed in the public sector. This has increased the share of women with pension coverage, particularly through the mid-eighties to the mid-nineties.

When we look at the downward trend among men, what we see is that a shift out of high-coverage industries—manufacturing to some extent, but also a shift out of education and public administration—accounts for some of it. Also, there has been a downward trend in unionization among men, which is positively correlated with pension coverage, and that has accounted for some of the decline of coverage among men.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you.

In your slide on quintiles, how do you define the bottom, middle, and top?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

It is based on total family income after tax, and it's adjusted for family size. If you have a family income of $100,000 and one person, or a family income of $100,000 and four people, there's an adjustment made to account for that family's size. The individual family's income is then ranked from lowest to highest, and the population is divided into five groups of equal size: the bottom 20%, the next 20%, and so on. Among the quintiles I've shown you there, the bottom corresponds to the lowest or bottom 20% of the distribution, the middle the third, and the top the highest quintile.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you.

Have you done any disaggregation of figures for women and men who work part-time, on the impact of part-time work on pensions?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

Yes. In a report we're doing now, the likelihood of having pension coverage shows as lower among part-time workers than among full-time workers. We see that in the aggregate. It's important to keep in mind that you might have high rates of part-time employment in sectors such as retail trade and restaurants and bars, where pension coverage is low, so it's also important to consider part-time and full-time within sectors; that might yield a slightly different picture. We could provide that.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Have you done any work on the impact on pensions for women, clearly in this case, who leave the labour force for a period of time for child-rearing and then re-enter the workforce? I recognize that people do it for different periods of time and go in and out, but have you done any study on that impact?

3:45 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

No, we haven't done that. What is really required there is to have either longitudinal data, where you could track people over time, or retrospective data, where people reflect on their lives.

Marie Drolet, one of our analysts, looked at the length of time during the working life and what the difference in years of participation was for women. She has quantified that. If I recall correctly, I think it's in the order of four to five years less than their male counterparts, which would have implications on contributions.

On that point, obviously there are provisions within the Canada and Quebec pension plans for dropouts for a period of time. I think where an interesting issue resides is with group RRSPs or defined contribution plans: what are the implications for periods out of the labour force for women under those types of retirement savings arrangements? There, we don't know very much.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

In the study you just referred to, is there any analysis of the fact that women frequently enter the workforce at a lower rate, exit the workplace to have a family—I don't know whether I'm expressing it right—and then, when they come back in, haven't accumulated the earnings that men have during that period of “time out”, for lack of a better term? Have you done any study on the impact of that?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

I think we've done work on that in terms of what earnings penalty women have incurred when they do come back. We haven't examined the implications of that for retirement savings.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

When we look at income stability, it's generally agreed that retirees need 50%, 60%, or 70% of retirement income to live in a way that is similar to the way they did when they were working. In your study, do you have any indication of whether women have experienced or attained that 50% or 60% of earnings?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

There's been one study of income replacement rates done at Statistics Canada. It came out last year. I've brought copies for the committee that I could leave with the clerk.

On that one, the family was the unit of analysis. Because the majority of women are living within a marital couple, they looked at family income. As for disaggregating that in terms of women living alone versus women in couples, we haven't gone that far. As I say, we've only done one study on the income replacement rates, and only now are those longitudinal data becoming available to do that type of long-term analysis.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Do I have more time?

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

You have 20 seconds.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Well, I'll put the question out.

Have you done any studies of the impact on women in different family configurations, either single, single parents, stay-at-home parents, or women working and dual family earnings? Have you done studies of that?

3:50 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

A number of issues come to mind on that.

One would be that on the proportion of women who are in marital relationships, women who are in their fifties, say, and approaching retirement, that proportion hasn't changed that much over the last 20 years. It's between 70% and 80%.

But what is particularly striking is that of the other 20% who aren't married or living common law, it's an x on the curve. It used to be that most of them were widowed. Relatively few of them were separated or divorced. Now what you find is that relatively few of them are widowed and the larger proportion of them are divorced. When we look at, for example, the incidence of low income among unattached women who are divorced, the incidence of low income is higher among that group than it is among those who are widowed or were never married.

So I think that change in family formation, with the incidence of late-life divorce, is one change that bears particular scrutiny.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Thank you.

Thanks for the extra 45 seconds.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Hedy Fry

Thank you.

Nicole.

3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

Thank, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here today.

Before getting started, I would like the committee to send its condolences to the family of the worker who lost his life on the Hill today in the boiler explosion yesterday.

I listened carefully to what you said. However, with regard to the figures in the second table, concerning "Tax filers with annual earnings greater than $1,000," I wonder to what extent that would be significantly different if we put: "Tax filers with annual earnings greater than $10,000." Do you have those figures as well?

Also, in May 2009, the Department of Finance published a news release in which it stated that the federal, provincial and territorial finance ministers had recommended amendments to the Canada Pension Plan starting in 2011. Among the new measures they would like to introduce, there is the main proposal, which is to maintain the contribution rate at 9.9%, but there is also some question of increasing the pension adjustment when a person retires before 65 years of age, from 0.5% per month to 0.6%. So it would be 7.2% per year instead of 6%.

The document also proposes to increase the pension adjustment starting after the 65th birthday, from 0.5% to 0.7% per month, that is from 6% to 8.4% per year, as also proposed in the discussion paper of the Régie des rentes du Québec.

Do you have any projections based those data? If these proposals are implemented, what will the population look like, with regard to women, pension plans and all that?

During this consultation—which is still underway, I imagine—certain women's groups have submitted briefs to ensure that their concerns are taken into account. One of those concerns—my colleague Ms. Neville referred to it—is women at home with children under seven years of age who cannot contribute to a pension plan while they are at home. These women's groups asked that they be granted pension credits equivalent to 60% of maximum eligible earnings.

Do you believe that measure would recognize the "invisible" work of those women and also enable older women to have better pension incomes?

3:55 p.m.

Ted Wannell Assistant Director, Labour and Household Surveys Analysis Division, Statistics Canada

I'll respond to the middle question first because it's something I've worked on fairly recently. We don't do projections, but we have looked at the proportion of people who take up their CPP or QPP benefits right at age 60. That proportion of the population has been increasing over time, particularly among people who have already taken up registered pension plan benefits in their fifties. A lot of them are advantaged in terms of what they have.

If you look at the trends for men and women, it has been going up for both men and women, but faster for women than for men, so a higher proportion of women--I think it's in the neighbourhood of 32% or 33%, the most recent data we have--take up their CPP benefits as soon as they are eligible at age 60, and it's two or three percentage points lower for men.

3:55 p.m.

Senior Analyst, Analysis Branch, Statistics Canada

Grant Schellenberg

In terms of the question on women with children under the age of seven and the invisible work of women, I'm not familiar with the policy recommendation and I'm not prepared to comment on what the implications of that might be.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Nicole Demers Bloc Laval, QC

With regard to your second table, which concerned "Tax filers with annual earnings greater than $1,000"—which I find very low—if the same projections were made using "Tax filers with annual earnings greater than $10,000", would that be significantly different?