Evidence of meeting #4 for Status of Women in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was violence.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sébastien Goupil  Director General, Policy and External Relations, Status of Women Canada
Linda Savoie  Director General, Women's Program and Regional Operations Directorate, Status of Women Canada

3:30 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

We will now begin the fourth meeting of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women.

Good afternoon, everyone. I would first like to welcome the Hon. Kellie Leitch, Minister of Status of Women, who will give a presentation today. I would also like to welcome Ms. Suzanne Clément, Coordinator and Head of Agency, Office of the Coordinator, as well as Ms. Johanne Tremblay, Director, Corporate Services and Chief Financial Officer.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), we will commence consideration of the Supplementary Estimates (B) 2013-2014, Vote 25B, under Human Resources and Skills Development.

I now invite the minister to provide her opening statement, for about seven minutes. This will be followed by our first round of questions, with seven minutes for each speaker from all the parties who are on the list.

Ms. Leitch, you have the floor.

3:30 p.m.

Simcoe—Grey Ontario

Conservative

Kellie Leitch ConservativeMinister of Status of Women

Madam Chair, prior to our beginning and my time allotment, I wanted to make sure that everyone at the committee had one of our white ribbons. If you'd like a permanent one, we have them here. I'll ask Suzanne to distribute them, if that's all right. I'm sure people would like a permanent one instead of the other. You can wear them throughout the 16 days of activism.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, I am pleased to be here in my role as Minister of Status of Women.

I'm accompanied today, as was mentioned before, by Suzanne Clément, the coordinator of Status of Women Canada, and Johanne Tremblay, the agency's chief financial officer.

We're here today on supplementary estimates (B) for Status of Women, for which there is one item. The agency is receiving a loan to enable reallocation of its headquarters as part of PWGSC's lease purchase project.

I would also like to take this opportunity to tell you about my first four months as Minister of Status of Women.

I've spent the last number of months visiting with women, men, boys, and girls in nearly every region of the country, and I've listened to their concerns and what their views are for the priorities for our government. What they've told me is that they like a society where women can live safely and securely, where they can be assured of economic prosperity, and where opportunities for leadership and decision-making roles are available to them.

Our government shares these goals and priorities. We're committed to promoting the full participation of women in the economic, social, and democratic life of Canada. We are working to achieve this by having a direct impact on people's lives and getting real, measurable results that will not only work for women, but for all Canadians.

As you know, Canada has weathered the economic storm very well, especially compared to other countries. Our economic recovery and growing prosperity depends on the economic prosperity of women, who in turn influence the prosperity of their families and their communities. If Canada is to continue to be one of the most prosperous nations in the world, women must be able to fully participate and contribute to job creation and fuelling our country's economic growth.

Our government's recent Speech from the Throne, “Seizing Canada's Moment”, outlined a number of initiatives that would benefit women, including the creation of jobs, opportunities in the skilled trades, and investments in the natural resources and forestry sectors.

It is these same initiatives that were the inspiration for the theme of this year's Women's History Month, Canadian Women Pioneers: inspiring change through ongoing leadership. Every day during the month of October, a woman pioneer of the past and present was profiled in areas such as science, technology, skilled trades, natural resources and construction.

My apologies to those of you whose first language is French. This is my first go at this, so my apologies for my limited capacity in French.

It is these same initiatives that were the inspiration for the theme of this year's Women's History Month: Canadian women pioneers: Inspiring change through ongoing leadership. Such women as Dr. Roberta Bondar, a Canadian astronaut; Annette Verschuren; and Hilda Broomfield Letemplier of Newfoundland, who owns and operates Pressure Pipe Steel Fabrication Ltd., are the women we highlight as pioneers of today.

We know women account for less than 25% of the total information and technology workforce in Canada. Our government, through Status of Women Canada, has recently supported six projects in communities like Summerside, P.E.I., Waterloo, Ontario, and Vancouver, B.C. These investments will help more women participate in Canada's technology sectors. That's good for Canadian women and it's good for Canada.

In fact, since 2007 the Government of Canada has provided more than $46 million in funding through Status of Women Canada for projects to increase women's economic security and prosperity. Just last month I met with the Advisory Council for Promoting Women on Boards to discuss ways to increase women's representation in positions of economic leadership in Canada.

I have been asked several times since becoming minister why this is a priority.

First, it increases economic opportunities for women, and that's good for Canada's economy. It reinforces and contributes to our government's number one priority of creating jobs, growth, and long-term prosperity for all Canadians.

Second, the business case for doing so is very strong. I don't have to convince you of the gains realized by companies when they have access to the widest pool of talent available for their boards. Increasing the participation of women on corporate boards sends an important signal to the marketplace, and that helps attract even more talented women to corporate ranks of all companies.

Third, it helps us all ensure that young women have role models in leadership positions that would serve as a source of inspiration and mentorship in the future.

Our government will continue to work to increase the number of women and girls in leadership and decision-making roles. Since 2007, through Status of Women Canada, we've delivered $21 million in funding to grassroots organizations in communities across the country, including Quebec City, Saskatoon, and Halifax, as well as to national organizations like the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, all to support women entering into leadership and decision-making roles.

Ending violence against women and girls is an important priority for our government and I think for everyone at this committee. Yesterday we recognized the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women and launched the 16 days of activism against gender violence in Canada. I want to take a moment now to share with you some of the accomplishments to help end violence against women and girls, as well as to outline some of our future priorities.

We are all troubled—I know that I am—by ongoing reports in our communities and in the media about incidents of violence against women and girls across Canada and across the globe. These incidents serve as a constant reminder that for many women and girls the threat of violence is a reality that causes untold damage on these individuals, their families, their communities, and their friends. I mentioned yesterday in the press conference I was involved in, that as a pediatric surgeon nothing is more heartbreaking and at the same time enraging than meeting a young woman, an adolescent, in the emergency department with her broken arm when you know it's the result of her being hit or beaten. I'm not their primary physician, but in these cases we all have a responsibility to end this type of violence and all types of violence.

The economic impact is also significant. In Canada, the economic cost of spousal violence against women is estimated to be $4.8 billion per year.

Ending all forms of violence against women and girls is a priority for our government and we've taken significant steps to make our communities safer. As stated in the Speech from the Throne, our government has introduced new legislation that will give police and prosecutors new tools to address cyberbullying. This legislation will also create a new criminal offence prohibiting the non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

Our government passed the Safe Streets and Communities Act to improve the safety of all Canadians. We also launched a national action plan to combat human trafficking, and we are increasing penalties for violent crimes. Just a week ago I announced a new call for proposals entitled, “Cyber and Sexual Violence: Helping Communities Respond”. It will support projects at the local level to help prevent violence against women and girls. In fact, since 2007 the government has provided more than $62 million in funding through Status of Women for projects to end violence against women and girls. As I mentioned before, there are current examples of this: a number in Saskatchewan communities to reduce violence against women and girls in rural settings; and in Fredericton, New Brunswick, where young people are engaged in reducing and preventing sexual violence on post-secondary education campuses. National organizations are developing online tools for engaging men and boys to end gender-based violence across the country.

Globally, the promotion and protection of women's human rights will continue to be central for our government. Malala Yousafzai has become a role model for the world by courageously risking her life to promote education for girls and young women. I'm proud of our government's decision to bestow honorary citizenship on her in recognition of her heroism and her power to inspire girls and women around the globe. In addition, when I was at the United Nations in New York to participate in the International Day of the Girl Child on October 11, I was very pleased to formally announce that Canada will be working with our country partners to pursue the first-ever, stand-alone resolution on child, early, and forced marriage during this year's UN General Assembly.

In closing, let me reiterate that more than ever before, Canada needs the contributions and participation of women and girls in all aspects of society. Our government understands the challenges and complex nature of the issues affecting women and girls, and we're committed to promoting their full and equal participation in the economy, and the social and democratic life here in Canada.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will now begin our question and answer period.

Ms. Truppe, you have the floor.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank you, Minister, for taking the time to come and speak with us and answer our questions. I am happy to welcome you here today, as we are aware you have a very busy schedule. On behalf of this committee, I would like to thank you for all you're doing for women and girls in Canada.

I want to mention that in your speech you said, “If Canada is to continue to be one of the most prosperous nations in the world, women must be able to fully participate and contribute to job creation and fuelling economic growth”. Thank you for saying that, because I think it is so true.

As you mentioned in your remarks, yesterday was the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women and the first day of the 16 days of activism against gender violence in Canada.

Violence against women is a concern for this government and for all Canadians. It ruins lives, destroys families, and takes a heavy toll on the economy. On average, every five days, a woman in Canada is killed in a domestic homicide. Women are more likely than men to experience certain forms of violence. For example, they are 11 times more likely to be a victim of a sexual offence and three times more likely to be criminally harassed.

In 2009, Statistics Canada estimated the economic cost of spousal abuse at $4.8 billion annually. These figures are very concerning. That is why our government continues to take decisive action across departments to combat violence against women and girls. Some examples are the passing of the Safe Streets and Communities Act, launching the national action plan to combat human trafficking, the stiffer legislation for cyberbullying that was announced recently, and of course, our own call for proposals on cyber and sexual violence.

One thing I really like is we passed Bill S-2, a very important bill that gave women on reserves the same rights that we sitting here today have.

I certainly believe that in order to be successful in combatting all types of violence against women, we need to work together as a government to accomplish this goal.

Minister, could you please inform this committee what Status of Women Canada has done and is currently doing to address the issue of violence against women and girls?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much for the question. I have to thank Ms. Truppe for her outstanding work as the Parliamentary Secretary for Status of Women.

I appreciate the question. I think it's very top of mind, this being one of the 16 days of activism regarding violence against women and girls. As I mentioned in my notes, since 2007, the Government of Canada, Status of Women Canada has funded over sixty-two million dollars’ worth of projects, in fact, over 300 locally based projects to end violence against women and girls. It's the highest funding level, ever, in this file.

A number of the projects are worth highlighting. The reason I highlight them at this time—as I mentioned yesterday when we had our small press conference to launch our 16 days of activism against violence against women and girls—is that I think it's important for all Canadians to participate. Whether it is by wearing a ribbon, participating in a local community project, or getting involved in one of the existing projects, this is an opportunity for all of us to take on this joint responsibility.

By way of example, one of the projects funded by Status of Women Canada is promoting healthy youth relationships. The Canadian Red Cross has received over $300,000 for a 31-month project to raise awareness of the relationships of violence, and promoting healthy relationships among boys and girls 14 to 18 years old.

Another project I mentioned engages young people to prevent violence against women on post-secondary campuses. This is a particularly excellent project, where the Fredericton Sexual Assault Crisis Centre has received $200,000 for a 28-month project to enhance the capacity of multiple post-secondary education institutions. St. Thomas University, the University of New Brunswick, and New Brunswick Community College are all working on a plan to respond to violence against women and girls on their campuses, something we've heard about in other areas of the country.

As I mentioned before, I'm very pleased with our historic funding levels. I want to encourage as many Canadians as possible. I hope that everyone around this table will actively participate in the 16 days of activism to reduce and prevent violence against women and girls across the country.

Obviously, this is something very important to me, as I know it is to all of you and to our government. It's one of our number one priorities.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

Thank you.

One thing I've noticed is that our government has nearly doubled our investments in local community projects. A large number of these projects are aimed at reducing violence against women and girls. This is an impressive accomplishment, which we're very proud of.

Could you give us a couple of examples of local community projects that our government is currently funding?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll start by outlining just a couple of the facts that I think we all need to be aware of, and therefore why these local community projects are so important.

In 2011, eight out of ten victims of police-reported crimes for violence against women were those that were by an intimate partner. As mentioned by Ms. Truppe earlier, on average, every five days a Canadian woman has an altercation with her intimate partner that may result in her death. These are concerns. These are things that all Canadians are concerned about, and this issue is one which our government makes one of its highest priorities.

By way of example, contributing to the prevention of honour crimes and violence against women and girls by developing community screening programs and information is a project that's run by the Shield of Athena in Quebec. It's a program that has received over $348,000 for a 36-month project. This is a community-based project that informs women and their communities about gender-based violence, including honour crimes, and the legislation concerning those crimes so that they can empower themselves. Training is provided to liaison workers for culturally related communities, and provides information and identifies at-risk situations so that these women can protect themselves.

Another project that I was involved in announcing myself, which I think is particularly important for reaching out to younger generations, is the Huddle Up and Make the Call program that is run in Ontario. It's actually a partnership between the White Ribbon Campaign and the Toronto Argonauts. This is a campaign that receives $600,000 for a 36-month project to engage men and boys in addressing violence against women and girls. What better way to make sure that young men understand that they need to have appropriate behaviours than having their role models and idols, large football players—I have to say that; when I stood between them, I looked like a little peanut— explaining to them what appropriate behaviours are.

These are just two of the projects we've been involved in. I think Status of Women Canada is doing an outstanding job of picking appropriate local community projects to make sure that Canadian women are protected.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

Thank you very much, Minister.

Thank you, Ms. Truppe.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Mathyssen.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

First of all, thank you for the white ribbon. I think it's important to acknowledge the fear and the pain that women who are abused face. Also, I regard this as a remembrance of Jack Layton, the co-founder of the White Ribbon Campaign to end violence.

Minister, you are certainly welcome here today. It's been quite a while. In fact, I think it was March 2012 since the Minister of Status of Women has been to this committee. Since it's your committee I know your appearance here—and the more often the better in the future—would be most appreciated.

My first question is in regard to the 2010 Native Women's Association collection of data. As you know, that was collecting data on the nearly 600 missing and murdered indigenous women. Unfortunately, that money was diverted away by the government from Sisters in Spirit, and since that time, there have been no new numbers. We know that the violence continues and that more indigenous women are missing, trafficked, kidnapped, and even killed.

Last year we saw an overwhelming consensus among the premiers of Canada, as well as the AFN and NWAC, calling for a national inquiry and action plan into missing and murdered indigenous women. The NDP, as I'm sure you know, has also called for this inquiry.

Violence against missing and murdered aboriginal women, against indigenous women, in general, has been studied almost 30 times by this Parliament and previous Parliaments, yet recommendations from these studies seem not to be implemented. They seem to, as the president of NWAC said, go on a shelf.

Will your government conduct the inquiry that's been asked for?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

Madam Chair, on a point of order, I'm not sure that this is the right committee for missing and murdered aboriginal women. There is a committee that is struck for that.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

It seems to me, Madam Chair, that we're talking about violence against women, and this is certainly violence against women.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Susan Truppe Conservative London North Centre, ON

Madam Chair, Status of Women doesn't have anything to do with the inquiry. It's a whole other committee that's studying missing and murdered aboriginal women.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

Thank you very much for the comment.

I will still let the minister answer since it's an issue related to violence against women.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

As I mentioned before, obviously the government is very committed to ending violence against women and girls. It's always very concerning to hear these numbers.

To focus on what Status of Women Canada has done, because that's why we are here today, there have been some substantive projects that Status of Women Canada has focused on in order to make sure that aboriginal women are protected and educated, and also that this issue is dealt with.

By way of example, one of our projects is Together for Justice on Language, Violence and Responsibility. The Liard Aboriginal Women's Society has received over $260,000 for a 36-month project to assist aboriginal women to transition to violence-free lives. Obviously, that's what we all want to attain. By building relationships between aboriginal women and law enforcement officials, as well as service providers, social services delivery, and policing for women who are living in Yukon communities, they will have an opportunity to have the improvement that we want to see, improvement through the development of protocols, law enforcement, and orientation.

On March 8, 2012, our protocol for building safer communities was confirmed, and a relationship, obviously with the RCMP, was signed. I think this is a huge establishment.

What we are doing at Status of Women Canada, as I mentioned before, is focusing on local projects, making sure that local community leaders, local law enforcement, local health care providers, and these aboriginal women know exactly what should best be done.

This is one of our projects, just one of several, that Status of Women Canada has invested in to make sure that goal is being attained. Obviously, this speaks to the fact that our government is focused on making sure that a priority for this government is to end violence against women and girls.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Well, thank you, Minister. I would have appreciated a yes or no in terms of the inquiry.

I'm sure you're aware that my colleague Ms. Ashton has tabled motion M-444. It outlines a national action plan to end violence against women in Canada. This is something that the UN has called for from every country by 2015. In fact, the rapporteur was here last summer and seemed concerned about the fact that Canada was lagging.

Are you—is this country—developing such a national action plan?

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much for the question.

I'm looking for one specific date, because I want to be very specific with you.

With respect to a national action plan, the government, as I've mentioned before, is very committed to protecting women and girls from all forms of violence and to holding offenders accountable for their actions. There's a number of actions that we've taken already in addition to what I mentioned before, which is the almost doubling of our funding support since 2007 at Status of Women Canada.

What are those items? One is passing the Safe Streets and Communities Act, which improves safety for all Canadians. The second is increasing the support for victims of crime. The third is the national action plan to combat human trafficking. We've invested in shelters through CMHC and, in particular, the shelters enhancement program, which has benefited Canadians across the country.

We've launched a website that I hope all of you as committee members have taken a look at and also shared with your friends: women.gc.ca/violence. This is a spectacular website, I have to say. I was introduced to it prior to becoming minister, but have had an opportunity to review it even more since. It encourages Canadians to be part of the solution of ending violence against women and girls.

With respect to international commitments—this was the date that I was looking for—Canada has committed in writing to the United Nations as of February 28, 2013, to move forward with respect to this issue.

Our government has been very focused. Even most recently, I announced that there was a call for proposals in regard to cyber and sexual violence. We're looking for people to send in new opportunities for local community projects. The call proposal closing date is December 1.

We are moving forward with a number of actions, things that I know Canadians have asked for. We will continue to move in that vein, making sure that we're committed to the actions that Canadians are expecting of us. It's what I've heard all across the country from younger to older Canadians, and we're delivering on those things they've asked for.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. Mathyssen.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Minister. We certainly are glad to have you with us today.

First of all, I want to assure you, as you know and all of us here know, that making people aware of the many issues facing women and girls is an important goal of this committee, and we are striving to make this happen. We certainly appreciate your leadership in this work and what we do together to make this all happen.

I noticed in your speech that you drew attention to the fact that ending all forms of violence against women and girls is a priority for our government and that we've taken significant steps to make our communities safer for women, girls and all Canadians. You also said that as per the recent Speech from the Throne, our government has introduced legislation that will give police and prosecutors new tools to address cyberbullying.

This is one issue that has received a lot of attention recently, that of aggressive behaviour toward young people over the Internet. We certainly are very familiar with this. The media has actively covered stories of cyberbullying and other forms of cyberviolence that often have tragic results.

Sadly, young women are most likely to be victimized by this modern form of violence. I know that concerned parents are actively looking for ways to help protect their children when they are online or using technology such as cellphones. Coming from a classroom and being a former teacher, I am very much aware of this. The issue is of great concern to all of us.

Could you please inform this committee on what Status of Women Canada is doing to equip Canadian communities with strategies to combat cyberbullying and cyberviolence?

4 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much for the question. I greatly appreciate it.

I know that for the younger people, particularly in your riding and in areas across the country, this is very top of mind. One of the things that I heard, having travelled across the country after becoming minister.... I visited many high schools, and whether it was at the Sacred Heart School of Halifax, or high schools in Kelowna or in downtown Toronto, young Canadians told me that cyberbullying, cyberviolence, is something that is extremely important to them and they want it combatted. Their parents do as well.

The Government of Canada, as I've said before, is committed to ending violence against women and girls. One of the things we discussed—Madam Clément and I had this opportunity just in the first week of my becoming a minister—is what focus we should have as our first call for proposals, with me as the new minister. Our determination, after meeting with a number of students across the country, as well as meeting with parents, was cyberviolence.

This was extremely top of mind, but also exceptionally important. I think we all know of the tragedy of the loss of young people like Rehtaeh Parsons and others from the Maritimes.

Our recent call for proposals is yet another example of taking action to address violence against women and girls. The call solicits funding applications for projects that prevent or eliminate cyberviolence. A second component is to prevent or respond to sexual violence against women and girls through access to community programs. Individuals across the country can apply for up to $175,000 for a local project, or if you're running a national project, $300,000 for those that are national in scope.

We have seen in the past that these calls for proposals have been very impactful in local communities. The national programs have developed great online tools and national tools for organizations across the country to utilize. I'm delighted to be moving forward with this.

I would encourage even people at this panel, if you have local community groups that are interested in this file, to please encourage them to apply for their local community project between now and December 1.

Thank you very much for the question.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

Moving on, as well, you mentioned Fredericton and universities. Coming from New Brunswick, I'm happy to hear you say that. I also want to assure you that in our small community of Miramichi, where we have a community college, I have met with a couple of teachers from there who were spending a lot of time introducing different ideas and different projects this week, and making this become very much aware.

I guess all of New Brunswick...and I give a tip of the hat to the Miramichiers for stepping out and doing this, especially one lady who comes from a large family, who has that motherly way of wanting to protect everybody on the river. She certainly is doing a great job at promoting this.

Are there any other initiatives our government is doing to address this sensitive issue?

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

As I mentioned in my comments before, and this is a very important issue, as I think everyone here knows, the Minister of Justice made a recent announcement introducing legislation that will give police and prosecutors new tools for addressing cyberbullying. This is something which I think all Canadians are pleased is moving forward. This legislation will create a new criminal offence prohibiting non-consensual distribution of intimate images.

Having spoken with, as you say, a number of young Canadians as well as their parents, I know that this is something that's been top of mind, something they've been requesting, so I was delighted to see the Minister of Justice moving forward on that. It goes hand in glove with our call for proposals. I think it will bode well for the Canadian public. This addresses something that's very top of mind and stresses the importance of eliminating violence against women and girls.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

Thank you.

4:05 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Hélène LeBlanc

You have one more minute.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

I just want to reiterate what my other colleagues have been saying, about how important it is that we keep this as a very important issue in all of our studies.

I'm certainly proud and happy to have you here with us today. I certainly will take the message back home and send words of congratulations as well for the job they are doing.

4:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you very much. I'm delighted that the people in Miramichi are getting together to put forward a proposal. I look forward to reviewing it. Similar to many of the proposals that we've received over the last number of years—a record number of over 600—more than 300 projects are focused on violence against women and girls since 2007. I think it's something everyone should be very proud of. As I say, with respect to the local community projects, we're looking forward to hearing about the one from Miramichi.