Status of Women Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2018

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You can't promise that. The Liberals will dictate that.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Well, it will be in my report, then, at a minimum.

While I have the floor, can I please return to the motion that I gave notice of a couple of weeks ago, about forced sterilization of indigenous women?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Yes. Do you have the motion there so that everybody can hear the motion once again?

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

The motion was modified by the clerk and it's being distributed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Fantastic.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

The motion that I moved originally was to invite the health minister. The advice that we got from some of the other committee members was that it would be more appropriate to bring in the indigenous services minister, Jane Philpott. The clerk agreed to modify the wording a bit.

The issue has been well described in the media. There are terrible stories. We thought that they were stories from the past. It turns out that, as recently as 2017 in Saskatchewan, there were indigenous women who were told, after giving birth, that they couldn't even hold their children unless they agreed to tubal ligation.

Some of the women who are parties to the class action lawsuit said that they didn't even know they had been sterilized. It's heartbreaking, and these are terrible stories.

I feel that this committee would be a good place for us to hear directly from the minister about what leadership the government is bringing to make sure that no province or territory is able to do this.

I'll read the motion:

That the Committee invite the Minister of Indigenous Services Canada to appear no later than December 2018 to brief the Committee on the government's efforts to immediately end the practice of forced and coerced sterilization of Indigenous women, pursuant to the Minister's mandate for a “renewed, nation-to-nation relationship with Indigenous Peoples, based on recognition of rights, respect, cooperation, and partnership” and the government's commitment to Article 7(2) of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples; and that the meeting be televised and no less than one hour in length.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Excellent.

Are there questions or comments?

We'll begin with Pam.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

First, I can assure the witnesses that their testimony will be included in what we are reporting.

On the motion, I'd like to propose an amendment that says “or department officials”. The reason for that is the timing that we have. It may be difficult to get the minister to appear.

I know that all of us are deeply concerned about the reports coming out and share the outrage of all Canadians at what is being reported and what is happening to these women.

I'm going to propose an amendment to it, given the timing, so that we can try to get some answers on what's happening. I know the minister—I've spoken to her myself—is very engaged in the issue, and is as concerned as we are about what has been happening.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay.

The amendment is to include the department officials if the minister is not able to come.

Is there any discussion on the amendment?

Go ahead, Sheila.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'll say that if the minister isn't able to come, that will be a disappointment. This is absolutely an issue of leadership. What we need to telegraph and be able to ask about is political leadership, not a staff answer.

I appreciate that this may be a bit of a safety valve, but I urge as strongly as possible that it be the minister who comes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Eva, you had a comment?

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

We have only next week. Just because of the time and the short notice, instead of having nobody talk, the minister's officials will be able to.... They are briefed. They know what they are doing, and they're helping her. They will give us a brief.... If she cannot come, it's better than having nobody.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Sheila, go ahead.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That is fair. I did give notice two weeks ago, and we could have voted on it then, except the Conservatives withheld permission for us to be able to vote at that time.

The minister has certainly been aware. In other committees, this has been raised, and it has been voted down, so there is some feeling that the government doesn't want to speak to this. The minister has known that we want this to happen, and I urge her in the strongest terms to accept the invitation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Pam, go ahead.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I know that the minister was asked by Rachel Blaney at committee about this issue. I believe Minister Philpott is also appearing at the health committee, where people can ask questions about it. It's not that these ministers have not been in committee to be asked these questions.

That's all we have to say.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Are there any further questions or comments before we vote?

Bob, go ahead.

[Bob Bratina, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, Lib.]

I'd like to call the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Let's call the question on the amendment, of course, first.

The amendment is to include a member from the department. Do we need to read it, or is everybody okay without reading the full amendment?

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Could we have a recorded vote, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Okay.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Is there any further discussion as we carry on to the full motion with the amendment included, or are we ready for the vote?

(Motion as amended agreed to)

Fantastic. Is there anything further?

Okay, we're going back to business and resetting the clock.

Bob, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Thanks to our witnesses, again.

Legal matters have come up from time to time in our discussion today. What access, typically, would these women have to legal advice? I'm sure they must find themselves in legal situations, perhaps responding to an attack and then having an assault charge, or anything else. I can imagine that there are many legal issues. Typically, would there be someone on staff? Is there easy access for them to get legal advice?

This is for anybody.

[Sharmila Chowdhury]

Here, in a city like Ottawa, we transitional support workers connect women to legal aid and lawyers.

We will even go with them to lawyers. I have to say, though, that many of our women won't report. They won't access the family law system around custody access, but we do give them the options. We offer support to follow through. That is available here, and we do support them through all the Children's Aid Society legalities they might be involved with. We help them get a lawyer to represent them, to help them get their kids back.

[Bob Bratina]

So, the legal aid system would be available if they chose to use it.