Evidence of meeting #140 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was important.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kathy Majowski  Board Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
Bonnie Brayton  National Executive Director, DisAbled Women's Network of Canada
Helen Kennedy  Executive Director, Egale Canada
Chaneesa Ryan  Director of Health, Native Women's Association of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Kenza Gamassi
Roseann Martin  Elder, Native Women's Association of Canada
Shirley Allan  As an Individual
Arline Wickersham  As an Individual

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Excellent. Thank you.

We're now going to move on, for our final seven minutes, to Rachel Bendayan.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Let me begin by taking a step back. With the remaining time I would like to get into some of the details, but first I would be interested in hearing each of the panellists discuss the issue of language. Everybody touched a little on the labels that senior women face in various communities. I heard reference by some of the panellists to “older adults” and heard words that I think would be interesting for the federal government to hear about, in the hopes of perhaps adopting language that discriminates less and that carries less stigmatism.

Ms. Majowski, perhaps you would like to start.

9:45 a.m.

Board Chair, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse

Kathy Majowski

Absolutely.

Language is very important. We can communicate discrimination inadvertently by the types of language we use. Ageism is rooted in some of the language and some of the words we choose. Unfortunately, the term “senior” can actually be seen as a derogatory term or a term that conveys less respect than maybe we mean to.

I myself prefer to use the term “older adult”. When I'm speaking of somebody who is indigenous, I say “elder”. I feel those terms convey a little more respect.

That's not to say that “senior” is not an appropriate term or not a term that is widely used and people understand and recognize, but because it has been around for quite some time, it has had the opportunity to develop maybe a less-than-respectful tone to it in some cases.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Ms. Brayton, would you like to jump in?

9:45 a.m.

National Executive Director, DisAbled Women's Network of Canada

Bonnie Brayton

I would love to. Thank you.

It's actually a good point. I won't focus on the word “senior”. I'll actually focus on some of the other language we hear around seniors—that is, “vulnerable”. The concept of vulnerabilization is something that is really important to understand in terms of what you do to somebody's person when you vulnerabilize them through language and through the way you treat or see them.

In the disability community, we have the same problem. One of the things I like to do is pivot people from the concept of vulnerabilization to resilience. Especially when you think of seniors or anybody who's marginalized, it means they are facing more barriers and it means they are likely more resilient. Some of the language we need to use is more positive.

While it might not be intuitive for people to think of this, again in a development context, they say there's a continuum between vulnerabilization and resilience. My argument is to take us beyond any of those concepts to empowerment, regardless of what population you're speaking to.

I know it doesn't actually answer the question. The previous witness really addressed the other issue well, in terms of an “older person” or an “elder” being an important way we show respect for older people.

I appreciate the question, and I do think the concept of vulnerabilization is another way we need to think of how we have to stop using language that takes away from somebody's humanity.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Ms. Kennedy.

9:45 a.m.

Executive Director, Egale Canada

Helen Kennedy

I agree with Kathy and Bonnie on the use of the word “senior”. “Older adult” is probably the most preferred. However, I also think when you're invisible in this conversation anyway, it's really important to address some of the other issues around intersectionality to be more inclusive. I think most of the LBTI2S seniors or older adults would just like to be included in the conversation in a more positive, empowering way.

If you're looking for a more standardized approach in how you address this issue, I would use the words “older adults” and “elders”—but please include us.

9:50 a.m.

Director of Health, Native Women's Association of Canada

Chaneesa Ryan

That's a really great question and I'm glad you asked it.

I echo what the other witnesses have said, but it's also really important to make the distinction, at least within the indigenous context, between “elders” and “older adults”.

Roseann could speak to this much better than I could.

9:50 a.m.

Elder, Native Women's Association of Canada

Roseann Martin

Where I come from, we refer to our elders as traditional people, the ones who carry on the language, the culture, the spirituality, and the older people as “seniors”. There's always a misconception, everywhere I go, when they talk about “elders” and “seniors” or “older people”.

Where I come from, we're regarded as “elders”. We are the ones who carry the language. We are the ones who carry the spirituality. We are the ones who teach the next seven generations. This is where the “elder” comes in.

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to sit at another table. When it came dinnertime, in our culture, it's the elders that go first to get their meal and all that, but I was the last one in line. I was mortified, because society doesn't really know that standard yet.

That's all I have to add. Thank you.

9:50 a.m.

Director of Health, Native Women's Association of Canada

Chaneesa Ryan

Perhaps I could quickly add to that, too.

With 2019 being actually the year of indigenous languages and also in the era of truth and reconciliation, it's a really important question, because it's time to start letting indigenous people use language that they would like to use to describe themselves and not have language assigned to them.

Again, I don't have the answer to the question. We represent indigenous people across the country, and depending on which group you speak to, whether it's first nations, Inuit or Métis, and even distinctions within those groups, they would have a different answer. However, just allowing that space for people to identify how they would like to be identified is a really important question that needs to be considered.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Just to follow up on that, would that be something your organization could assist with?

9:50 a.m.

Director of Health, Native Women's Association of Canada

Chaneesa Ryan

Definitely, yes. It's something we've actually been discussing as well.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC

Okay, wonderful. Thank you.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Rachel, your time is over. It's been seven minutes.

We are going to switch over to the second round, but we're going to have to reduce that down to three minutes, I'm afraid, just so that we can get to everyone.

Sonia and Kellie, you'll both have three minutes to ask questions.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Thank you, all of you, for taking the time to present today.

I'm a practising physician, and so my questions are about health services. One of the issues that has come up for me many times is the accountability of the system to patients, and in particular to seniors. I'm an orthopaedic surgeon. The number of people waiting months upon months for a hip replacement is ridiculous.

Maybe you, Bonnie and Roseann, could comment with respect to that—palliative care in your case, Bonnie. I'll ask you to be succinct because I only have three minutes.

Roseann, I grew up in northern Alberta surrounded by three Cree reserves where there were issues around infections, whether it be tuberculosis or others. Your comment on opiates was very salient. Maybe you could comment a bit about how the federal government could play a more meaningful role in making sure that your people are healthy, not just seniors but others.

May 2nd, 2019 / 9:50 a.m.

National Executive Director, DisAbled Women's Network of Canada

Bonnie Brayton

Thank you very much. I will jump right in and just say, indeed. The issue of palliative care, for lots of different reasons, is one that I don't feel we have addressed. I think the federal government needs to put a focus on palliative care—

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

And be accountable.

9:50 a.m.

National Executive Director, DisAbled Women's Network of Canada

Bonnie Brayton

—and be accountable with the idea that we need to set a standard for what has to be available, again, across every province and territory. As we know, with the health system we have, there's a problem with uneven service delivery. Certainly, as you've pointed out, in some places you can wait a very long time, and as a surgeon I know you know that. It depends on where you are. There are those sorts of issues.

Of course, palliative care isn't available in some communities. It's the deepest concern we have because that's the reality.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Roseann, could you comment on the accountability to your people?

9:55 a.m.

Elder, Native Women's Association of Canada

Roseann Martin

Our people need a healing lodge right in our own communities, to be run by indigenous people rather than non-native people because they don't know about our culture. They don't know about our spirituality. They don't know what our needs are.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

So it's the direct patient or person accountability for providing care at an appropriate level.

9:55 a.m.

Elder, Native Women's Association of Canada

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Okay.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

You still have a minute.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Kellie Leitch Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Oh my goodness. We're very efficient, ladies.

One of the other items I'll just ask about has to do with the role the federal government can play in health care. Often I find that for patients, people at the federal level say, “This is just a provincial responsibility,” or “This is just the responsibility of a specific group.” Do you find that, whether it be in palliative care or the individuals you deal with, Roseann, in your community? Do you often get that push-back, with no one taking responsibility and ownership but really just passing the buck?

I guess it's almost like a yes or no question. Do you find that's the case?