Status of Women Committee on May 9th, 2017

[Catherine Mavriplis]

I don't think it's necessary. There are mentors of all kinds. What we recommend to our workshop participants is to have a board of directors, in terms of mentors, to have many different kinds of mentors. A lot of the women don't want to have only women mentors, because they know the whole system is male-centric and male-dominated, and particularly in entrepreneurship.

There was a program here in Ottawa, Lead to Win, and then Lead to Win for Women. The Lead to Win for Women died out because they wanted to have men as their mentors to know how to compete in entrepreneurship.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Absolutely.

Doreen, I want to move on to you. You were talking about Irving shipyards. It sounds great that there are going to be some changes to their program. When the program initially started, were there very few women in the program? Are you seeing a large increase in it? What was the base level there when it first started with Irving shipyards?

[Doreen Parsons]

Women Unlimited started 10 years ago, so we've been in operation for a decade now. We had a very successful program right across the province at four community colleges. The 650 women who had participated over that time participated in those programs.

To your point about the percentage of women in college-level programs, one thing that we did in the very beginning was build the program with industry and education. We didn't, as a women's organization, create a program and then ask for funding. We actually built it for a year with industry. We recognized that when women finished our 14-week career exploration program, they might not have a seat in the college. One of the deals in our program was that the Nova Scotia Community College would guarantee a seat for every woman who graduated from our career exploration program in any trades or technology program at any of the 13 campuses across the country. That has stood for 10 years. They continue to do that. That is huge. If there are wait-lists, they still are guaranteed a seat.

The number of diverse women within their trades and technology programs has increased from a low of 6% to 7% to a high of 17% to 18% in that 10-year period because of their investment, and that was critical.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

We talk a lot about some of the terminology that's used, that we as women may be more interested in terminology. When we're talking about getting women involved in the STEM fields, what are some of the big components of being there? Is it because you're finding that it's wage equity? What are some of the things that interest women in getting into the STEM fields? What are some of the things that you're finding they are drawn to?

[Doreen Parsons]

There are 650 women who've already been there. They see their sisters. They see women in their communities who are in these fields and who love their jobs. That critical mass makes a difference. We recruit very much through an outreach program within communities across Nova Scotia, but they are our greatest champions. It's the 650 women who are working in the trades as welders and power engineers and carpenters, who reach out to other women in their communities and talk about their experiences. They are the greatest champions.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Wonderful. Thank you.

Louise, I want to move over to you because you were talking about entrepreneurs and how we can get more women entrepreneurs. What is it that we can do to attract women into becoming self-employed?

[Louise Champoux-Paillé]

I am suggesting that women who are already entrepreneurs should act as ambassadors to stir the entrepreneurial spirit and cultivate it. This would show women that it is possible for them to become entrepreneurs. Many women cannot see themselves heading up an organization and there is nothing like hearing from other women to convince them to become entrepreneurs.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That's wonderful. I want to go back because we're talking about fiscal management, fiscal responsibility, and understanding capital. I think a lot of times there is a disconnect between our high schools and reality when it comes to budgeting. It's great because I've heard that they're going to be teaching some financial management courses now in high school.

I think both men and women, when they're graduating from secondary school, don't have that basic budgeting knowledge. What are some of the things we could do to increase that, Louise?

[Louise Champoux-Paillé]

At Quebec high schools, a program has just been revived to encourage students to become more financially literate. There is a whole course on that right now. The same is true at the Réseau des femmes d'affaires du Québec. We place great emphasis on this training, which includes how to approach banks to obtain capital. Training is essential in order to support women entrepreneurs.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

On your last comment, your recommendation number nine was that there needs to be more women on final lists. I want to know, should it be that there must be women on that list regardless of whether they are equal in merit?

This is where I want to look at the men versus women, or should it be the best person for the job? Could you answer that question, Louise?

[Louise Champoux-Paillé]

They have to be people who meet the job requirements. I am not talking about circumventing merit-based selection to favour certain individuals.

Over 50% of people in administrative positions who have an MBA or administration degree in Canada are women. This has been the case for over 30 years. So there is a critical mass to meet this need.

We recommend following England's example. The British government met with the heads of recruitment firms to ask them to make a commitment to submit the name of at least one woman for all senior positions. If memory serves me, up to 50% of candidates on the short list are women, and their skills meet organizational requirements.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Very good.

Now we're going to go to Jenny Kwan for seven minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, and thank you to all the witnesses, particularly for the championship that you're doing on behalf of all of us to advance women in the fields.

I would like to ask a question first to Doreen. In your publication “On the Level Women: Working in Trades and Technology”, you noted that helping employees find quality child care can lower costs by improving retention. Retention is a major issue that we're talking about.

From that perspective, what role do you think government should play? For example, I look at Quebec. We envy Quebec because they have the $7-a-day child care program there, which assists a lot of women in terms of getting into the workforce.

I wonder if you could speak to that and whether or not child care is a major issue related to retention.

[Doreen Parsons]

Absolutely. I'm not an expert on child care, but having spent 30 years working with women who live in poverty or on lower incomes in Nova Scotia, I can say that it is the great divide. Women who are lone parents or primary caregivers are challenged hugely by child care.

Being so significantly under-represented within the trade sector, there are not many industries or companies that offer on-site child care or child care opportunities. It is something that is a significant challenge and continues to be for women in the trades and technologies, and obviously other sectors as well.

We work within our programs to provide subsidies for child care. You have to if you have women-centred programs, but we also are working with companies to try to build their gender equity strategies and understand the great challenge that child care is for women.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to go to Louise on the same question with respect to child care. In your sector, do you find that because of child care issues it is a challenge to encourage women to go into the workforce?

[Louise Champoux-Paillé]

Yes, that is a significant problem.

The Quebec government created a daycare system. There are also many large companies in Quebec that have on-site daycare. We must continue with similar measures because women leave the workforce gradually. When they return, they are five years behind their male colleagues. People build their careers when they are young, between the ages of 30 and 40.

We must vigorously attack the problem you raised.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I think it's safe to say, then, that what we need and could help tremendously, I think, for all provinces and across the country, is to have a national affordable child care program for women and all families. Is that a safe assumption?

Could I get a quick answer from everybody? Doreen and Catherine?

[Doreen Parsons]

Yes.

[Catherine Mavriplis]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Louise?

[Louise Champoux-Paillé]

Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I want to move on to this next issue, because I think this ties into economic security for women as well. As we know, women leave the workforce for unpaid work. It's not that child care and child-rearing are unimportant. It's the most important thing certainly in my life, but that being said, you're often forced to leave the workforce. That impacts your economic security during that time. As well, when you grow older, it has impacts on your pension.

Part of the issue, of course, is access to defined pension benefits. That's important, but part of that equation is supporting women through CPP. We have heard recommendations from the United Steelworkers and from Professor Kathleen Lahey for an expansion of the child-rearing component dropout in CPP. I wonder if I could get your comments around that. Do you agree that there needs to be a specific provision in CPP to ensure that women are not penalized for taking time out for child-rearing or other unpaid work?

Louise, maybe I can start with you, please.

[Louise Champoux-Paillé]

Yes, I completely agree with that proposal. I think it is a question of justice, fairness and a decision for society to make. I would support that recommendation.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'll go to you, Catherine, and then to Doreen.

[Catherine Mavriplis]

I will echo the previous comments. I think it's a worthwhile thing to do, and it's a social responsibility for all of society to make sure that happens.