Status of Women Committee on June 8th, 2017

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

It is 19.2% in 2011.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

So 19.2% of the female population would be identified—

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

So 19.2% would be both men and women.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay. So we don't have that divided.

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

Consider that about 52% of that population.

[Sheila Block]

So call it about—

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

We can work out a number....

[Sheila Block]

It's “tenish”.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I think that's a really good thing for us to look at just so that we know what the picture is there. I just wanted to see that.

In your research, have you found concrete evidence that racialized women have the same experience and the same job descriptions as non-racialized women? Do they get paid less? If we're comparing at apples with apples, do we see that they get paid less?

[Sheila Block]

I think sometimes in these comparisons you compare people who are working full-time for a full year and add controls for some of those variables. I think when we think about the impact of racism, we have to really step back. It has an impact on the educational choices that people see as available to them, on their interaction with the state, and also on where they work, what kinds of career choices they have made and what other responsibilities they have.

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

The other analysis that is relevant here is understanding the specialization in the labour market context. It's in two forms. There is what is referred to as “statistical”, which is what you're talking about, which is apples to apples. Then there is “systemic”, which is what Sheila is talking about, at work. If you only look at the one definition or one understanding, you're not likely to see the full picture.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Yes. If everything were on a level playing field, which is what we have to work towards, would we still see this discrimination? If our racialized women had the opportunity, every chance, whether it was going through the STEM fields and full education, potential child care, would you still see this as a factor? Or wouldn't we have that information?

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

Other analysis, other research, for instance, has been done using surveys of people using almost identical resumés. In that case, when you control for gender, you get a three-to-one access to those jobs.

I think that gives us a sense of what's going on in the labour market in terms of access for women, for people who are equally qualified.

[Sheila Block]

Grace-Edward is talking about research around gender. There's something similar around racialization where identical resumés were sent to jobs, and people with white-sounding names were much more likely to get interviews than people who had.... I think there was a focus on Asian names, actually.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Absolutely. I think those are the things that we absolutely have to work on. For the people who are in that group, especially when we're looking at working for minimum wage, we see there is such a difference between those who are racialized compared to non-racialized.

Have you taken into consideration language barriers and education barriers? What kind of data comes in with that to show that these are the people working for minimum wage and these are some of the barriers we have to work on to be able to give them better opportunities?

[Sheila Block]

When you look at recent immigrants, you see that there is an even higher ratio than for racialized workers, but I think if you turn back to that slide that shows first, second, third, and higher-generation racialized immigrants, I think we're trying to point out that there is a thread that says that absolutely sometimes there are language barriers. Sometimes there are barriers about international credentials. There are all those issues and there is a great deal of policy that works toward that. But beyond and underneath that is the systemic racism that is happening in the labour market. That's really what our research works on. There is a lot of other valuable research that discusses those kinds of barriers and how you can get international credentials recognized, and what the appropriate language training programs are. Grace-Edward probably knows more about that than I do, but there's something under—

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I know my time is up, so any additional information you could add would be absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Send it to the clerk.

Thank you very much.

I now give the floor to Ms. Moore, for seven minutes.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to know whether you have data on the differentiation between racialized women living in urban areas and those living in rural communities.

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

Well, we haven't done that analysis, but I think it's possible to do that analysis. We look at the census of metropolitan areas and we see the difference between urban and rural settings. You can do that. We don't have that at our fingertips right now.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I think it would be useful to gather such data, since those are different areas of work and there is also often more of a community approach in rural areas. So a woman's or a man's network of contacts will be more extensive. It could be useful to have that data.

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

I'm taking notes.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Do you have data on access to entrepreneurship? In my riding, there is a woman who recently won a prize for the business she started. When I travelled, especially in Africa, I saw a lot of women who had small local businesses while here, even though women are used to having their own business, manage their own affairs, they end up as employees after having been business owners. Do you have any data on that?

[Prof. Grace-Edward Galabuzi]

We don't have data on that. I should tell you that I just spent six months in Africa, and although African women are incredibly resourceful, they are some of the poorest women on earth, so it doesn't necessarily translate. The opportunity and the resourcefulness that come with entrepreneurship do not necessarily translate into the opportunities that people have either in the labour market or in the market broadly speaking.

I think it's important for us to both acknowledge those who are able to make it through and to talk about these questions at the level of scale. There are individuals who are able to embrace opportunity and use their entrepreneurial skills to do very well, but we are really operating at the level of aggregation here, so we're looking at a broader population rather than simply looking at individuals who may be very successful.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Okay.

Is the data compared, for example, with data on how the network of contacts is perceived? In other words, do women who are likely to get more precarious jobs tend to describe their network of contacts as weak? Is that information available?