Status of Women Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

I'm going to have to interrupt now.

Earl, what we'll do is we will come back and you will have five minutes, but I'm going to pass this on to Sheila Malcolmson, because I know this will be an extensive question and answer.

Sheila, you'll have your seven minutes and then we'll come back to Earl.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm the representative for the New Democratic Party on the committee. Thank you to both witnesses for your work.

My first question is for Ms. Halperin-Kaddari from the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women.

Your report is really timely because it is only every five years that the UN looks at Canada's fulfillment of its international commitments around elimination of discrimination against women. This is a particularly helpful document for our study.

I want to focus first on the pay equity testimony and the concerns that UN CEDAW has raised about our government's failure to legislate pay equity. It was 40 years ago that our government made that commitment internationally, and it still hasn't happened. Can you elaborate on some of the statistics, where Canada sits in the world standings, and is there any hope of tightening or eliminating that gap in the absence of a legislated solution?

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

Some of the statistics available to us put Canada in not the best place it could be with respect to its own resources and commitment to gender equality. That commitment is evident in many of Canada's initiatives and legislation, but the gap between the commitment and the reality is really disturbing. In relation to OECD countries, Canada is either the seventh or eighth state with respect to wage gaps between women and men. The numbers for women working full-time all year run anywhere from women making 70% of what men are making on average to their making a little less than 80% of what men are making. In terms of wage gaps, this performance is well below that of the leading countries in the OECD.

When it comes to other criteria or other data, the numbers are—

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

The parliamentary secretary could listen to the testimony. He's our link to the minister, and it's very important. Thank you.

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

The data are even more worrying, because only 6% of the women employed are managers. Again, this is below the rate in many other countries, such as Australia, France, the U.K., or Iceland. The female share of seats on boards of the largest publicly listed companies is less than 20%, well below that of New Zealand, the U.K., Denmark, Finland, Italy, and France. Quotas and what we in CEDAW call temporary special measures are especially striking, because these have proven to work, although I shouldn't say easily, in other countries that have adopted them.

Concerning paid leave specifically for fathers, in 2016 there was no such legislated leave in Canada. I don't know whether this has changed since the report; I'm afraid it hasn't. We heard from the other testimony how significant a factor child-rearing responsibility is in impeding women's full integration into the job market. This again is something for the government to do federally, to legislate and ensure that the option of paid leave specifically for fathers is in place.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'm going to move you to a related area. We've heard a number of witnesses say that when there is a lack of affordable child care, it is the parent who makes less money who drops out of the workforce to provide that child care. That tends to be the woman. Because we have a lack of pay equity legislation, women tend to earn less and tend to be the ones who drop out of the market because they can't access affordable child care, because we don't have a national universal child care system. That means that when they return to the workforce, they disproportionately do part-time, precarious work.

Can you describe your observations about how the lack of affordable child care access in Canada is affecting women's economic justice?

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

Absolutely. Again this is a universal phenomenon, and we cannot blame the individual couples or partners who are taking the most economically efficient choice they can take when their intention is simply to survive in the most economical manner they can. When Canada is, according to our numbers, investing only 25% of the OECD's recommended benchmark on child care facilities, this level of investment I think explains very well the impossible dilemma or situation—the limbo—that Canadian women and Canadian parents are faced with.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

You have 25 seconds.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'll leave it there. The report, the brief from UN CEDAW, is very strong and we'll use lots of that in our final argument. Thank you very much.

Thanks, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to Eva Nassif for seven minutes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would also like to thank Ms. Halperin-Kaddari and Ms. Svigir.

Based on your experience in dealing with and studying cases of refugee settlement in Canada or elsewhere in the world, what has worked well and what could be improved in terms of the help given to immigrant women to better integrate them into Canadian society and to prevent isolation and exclusion?

In short, what best practices can you share?

[Beba Svigir]

Is that a question for me?

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

It's for both of you. If you can start, that would be good.

[Beba Svigir]

I can. Thank you.

I mentioned to you that we are the largest settlement organization with a gender-specific mandate in Canada. What has been done well in Calgary is investment into the needs assessment that we presented to the federal government. Certainly the majority of our funding in line with the portfolio of immigration comes from the federal government, including Status of Women.

We have managed as an organization to get through to the government officials and to explain the need for customized, and “customized” is really the word I would stress, approaches to supporting immigrant women so that they can expedite their integration.

I also mentioned that we have 13 different bridging programs, probably the largest number of programs in any settlement organization in Canada. That has been done well. We've received tremendous support from the federal government for our services.

Obviously, we need much more investment in our services on any given day, but every city and bigger centre that receives immigrants should have similar services, whether that's through organizations that serve only women or adding women-specific approaches in organizations that already provide settlement services.

There has been a lot of discussion about the role of academic institutions and how they complement the work that settlement organizations are doing. That's another thing that requires a little more vested analysis so that this collaboration can produce effective results and provide that social return on investment.

Child care issues and more investment into providing child care support for immigrant women while they are taking courses is absolutely essential, because immigrant women do not have natural supports in Canada. They don't have mothers, grandmothers, aunts, and uncles to help them. Access to child care is absolutely crucial for any integration success of immigrant women everywhere in Canada.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Ms. Halperin-Kaddari, could you comment on what Ms. Svigir said?

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

The witness from Calgary mentioned the key issues that we can see from other countries that are facing similar challenges. Courses on acquiring language skills are the number one key to integration. The women who are taking these courses should be provided with adequate child care facilities and if they are pregnant, if they give birth, they should be accorded the same benefits that women in Canada are eligible for, so that they do not lose the training they've already received. Then they can return immediately after using the maternity leave to the same place they had been before, and not lose their training and their time due to child-bearing that some of them are going through during that period of time.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Ms. Kaddari, are there any indications that culture shock and unfamiliarity with the way things are done in Canada are preventing immigrant women from finding work?

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

I do not think that's been presented with such indications in the information that we were provided with. In relation to women experiencing culture shock, at least from what we had been exposed to, the question might be better framed if we were to ask about culture shock in the male partners and the need to orient them with the norms that are very much different from the patriarchal traditional norms they may carry with them from their former countries. The challenge is more on that part of the equation than with respect to women, who may also be experiencing difficulties in transition, but my impression at least, from what we have seen and heard, is not that it impedes them, but rather that it impedes their male partners and then, of course, presents a challenge for them as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move into our second round and we're going to start with Earl Dreeshen for five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Kaddari, I'd like to go back to explain where I was going in the few minutes I had to describe what was involved with matrimonial property rights. It seemed to me you had indicated that the family home on reserves didn't apply to first nations that already had a plan. It sounded as though you were suggesting that it was okay when they were under the property rights, but as soon as they lost that or the reserves had come up with a plan, there was an issue.

Did I misunderstand what you said there?

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

I had the chance to go back to my notes—

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I was hoping that you had.

[Prof. Ruth Halperin-Kaddari]

Can I read to you what I summarized then? I think it will explain.

What I wrote then was that first nations women now benefit from protections of the division of matrimonial property as real property under the Family Homes on Reserves and Matrimonial Interests or Rights Act equal to those of non-indigenous women resident off reserve on the occasion of family breakdown or death of a partner. However, the Family Homes on Reserves and Matrimonial Interests or Rights Act provisions do not apply to those first nations reserves that had enacted their own first nations matrimonial real property laws, so this means that there is inconsistent application in practice creating an uneven application of matrimonial property laws and emergency protection measures, most often needed by women and their children across first nations reserve communities in Canada.

At present, there are no guidelines or minimum standards of protection for women or children that must be incorporated by first nations if they create their own matrimonial property regime.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

If I could, I'll just stop you. Thank you very much for bringing that out. I appreciate the work that the UN has done to come in, as they are invited to, to investigate and talk about certain issues, but again, there has to be a sensitivity to what it is that is happening on reserves when they make these decisions that they have asked for. That is the point that I'd hoped we'd be able to flesh out on that. Many items that you have indicated are very significant, and we do have groups and organizations that no doubt will take a look at them and make decisions as to the relevancy based on what we see on the ground. Thank you very much for that.

Ms. Svigir, first of all, I'd like to acknowledge, on behalf of the Central Alberta Immigrant Women's Association and Halima Ali and some great friends of mine, the great work that you have done. You mentioned a point about foreign credentials. At Red Deer College we had a number of people get together. These women—computer scientists, chemists, medical professionals—were there talking about the issues and concerns they had, and of course, they were also talking about their appreciation for the great work that CAIWA and the Calgary Immigrant Women's Association do, so you're doing amazing work.

The concerns that they had were, of course, how the accreditations are done. Men have the same issue as well. The point is that, as was mentioned earlier, they seem to be in more survival industry jobs to keep them going, which makes it more difficult for them to go and get the accreditation. I'm wondering if you've found some unique ways of being able to help them.

[Beba Svigir]

Obviously, accreditation rules are being done in collaboration with employers, and they're very demanding. That's why with accredited positions it takes longer for immigrants to be processed. For accreditation, typically, the post-secondary institutions have taken it on because of the requirement for a high level of education.

We actually do work with one accredited position in our bridging program, which is accounting. Our programs offer certification as opposed to accreditation. Women that go through our programs have done so much better than the ones who came to us and spoke about, after they had received accreditation, the difficulties in actually getting into the industry with that accreditation. Those are the differences that I can speak to in this short time.

What it all boils down to is understanding the needs of immigrants and accrediting bodies, post-secondary institutions, and settlement organizations that have the capacity and skills to provide certification/accreditation working together to understand the root causes of disparity in Canada, and efficiently utilizing the skills that immigrants, in our case immigrant women, have to actually get them through the process so they can access their original professions in Canada.