Evidence of meeting #83 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was métis.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vicki Chartrand  Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Bishop's University, As an Individual
Véronique Picard  Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.
Jonathan Rudin  Program Director, Aboriginal Legal Services
Melanie Omeniho  President, Women of the Métis Nation
Felice Yuen  Associate Professor, Concordia University, As an Individual

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

We're going to commence this morning's meeting. Thank you very much.

Today we're going to continue with our study pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Tuesday, June, 20, 2017. The committee resumes its study of indigenous women in the federal justice and correctional systems.

Today, for our first panel, I would like to welcome, from Bishop's University, Dr. Vicki Chartrand. She is an associate professor in the department of sociology. We also have, from Quebec Native Women Inc. and by video conference from Kahnawake, Quebec, Véronique Picard. She's the justice coordinator.

Today we're going to begin with our seven-minute rounds, and with Vicki, for seven minutes.

Go ahead.

11 a.m.

Prof. Vicki Chartrand Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Bishop's University, As an Individual

Before I begin, I would actually like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of this land on this unceded territory of the Anishinabe people. It's an honour and privilege for me.

I also want to thank the members of this standing committee for their time and energy in embarking on such important work.

As noted, I am Vicki Chartrand. I am currently associate professor at Bishop's University in Sherbrooke, Quebec. Previous to this, I was the executive director of a women's transition house in the northern interior of British Columbia. I also worked at the national office of the Elizabeth Fry Societies. Prior to that, I worked at Correctional Service Canada in the voluntary sector in the parole office.

You may know that in 2016 Macleans magazine published an article entitled “Canada’s prisons are the 'new residential schools'”. The statement builds on a substantial body of research that explores how Canada's criminal justice system works against indigenous people at every level: police checks and arrests, bail denial and detention, sentencing miscarriages and disparities, and of course, the high rates of imprisonment. These trends are also well documented throughout other settler colonial regions, such as the United States, Australia, and New Zealand.

It's clear that the problem is systemic to settler regions like Canada. While the prison is not a residential school per se, we have to keep in mind that it was born of the same modern logics of segregation and reformation of the individual. I don't think it's a coincidence that in the 1950s and 1960s, as we started to see Indian assimilation policies begin to recede, we also started to see the prison and the child welfare systems silently take their place in the lives of indigenous people. In fact, prior to the 1960s, there was only 1% to 2% of indigenous prisoners. Since the 1960s, that number has increased consistently every year after.

As you have likely heard, indigenous women represent 2% of the general population and somewhere between 36% and 39% of the federal prison population. This reality is woven into a backdrop of colonialism, where indigenous women are more often criminalized and then imprisoned for what are referred to as “crimes of survival” that are linked to poverty, lack of educational and employment opportunities, lifestyles of substance abuse, mental health concerns, and histories of sexual abuse, violence, and trauma. In your study, it's important for the committee to consider how the prison system often parallels and reinforces the same realities of repression, abuse, and violence experienced by indigenous women from the onset of colonialism.

I've visited prisons all across Canada, in Australia, and I've even been in a prison in Cambodia. Prisons are characterized by authoritarianism, marked power imbalance, violence, enforced restriction of movement and activities, isolation, lack of freedom of association, and enforcement of arbitrary and trivial demands. This is also very characteristic of colonialism itself.

Indigenous women end up on the deepest end of the system, and continue to be subject to some of the most restrictive levels of penal practices, such as maximum-security classifications, segregation, involuntary transfers, physical restraints, strip searches, lockdowns, use of force, dry cells, institutional charges, lack of medical attention, and also with higher rates of self-harm and suicide. When you end up on the deep end of the system—and I don't mean to be macabre—you often don't come out alive.

Adaptive or coping strategies commonly exhibited by women in prison, such as angry outbursts, substance use, or self-injury, are often cultivated in response to the prison environment and compounded by their histories of abuse, violence, and trauma. Women's resistance to the institutional order, or their inability to adjust or cope, is often interpreted as non-compliance, perceived as a security threat, and met with intensive control, which also results in more time in prison.

For example, there are two cases in the media that I'm sure you're familiar with.

Kinew James, who died of a heart attack after her sentence after her emergency button call in her cell was routinely ignored, was initially serving a six-year sentence for manslaughter but accumulated dozens of charges while in prison, which resulted in a 15-year sentence.

Renee Acoby has also been in the media. She accumulated an additional 21 years of charges in prison, spent more than half her time in segregation, and was eventually given a dangerous offender designation, which, effectively, keeps her in prison for life. This is particularly germane for indigenous women whose resistance to control or violence is a part of their survival in their communities or on reserve, whatever the case may be.

Since 1848, from the Brown commission, we've been looking at the systemic repression and brutality in the prisons.

Since the 1960s we've been looking at remedies to address the rates of incarceration of indigenous people in Canada that have included more penal interventions, and clearly to no avail. It is a mistake for us to continue to make the prisons part of a remedy to the rates of indigenous incarceration when that reality is arguably endemic to its character.

I have solutions that I want to build on that echo the significant work others have been doing in this area already.

First, front-end strategies that are indigenous-led are more long-term. There's a bill on the table, Bill C-262, that outlines the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. I want to commend the current government for supporting this bill. It's in line with the TRC recommendations.

We need to make sure that basic rights of indigenous people are being met. There are basic national standards of clean water, electricity, employment and educational opportunities, social service support, health care, and the like.

Second, we have to minimize and mitigate the harmful impacts of the prisons, such as, for example, by abolishing segregation, at the very least, for women. My understanding is that the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies has a pilot project in place that looks at dynamic security measures, rather than more restrictive ones, such as force measures. We can also accomplish this through external, independent oversight and accountability. That can happen by way of judicial review, as outlined in the Arbour report, or through parliamentary oversight in the intermediary, as outlined by Senator Kim Pate.

Finally, we need decarceration strategies and community options. There are existing remedies in the legislation that include, in the CCRA, section 29 agreements in the community for people with mental health concerns, and sections 81 and 84, whereby indigenous and non-indigenous prisoners can serve their sentence and parole in a supported way in the community.

In implementing these remedies, we obviously need the necessary resources. We have to build on the internal strengths and capacities of indigenous communities—I could talk more about that—as well as be creative in our options.

I just want to remind you that prisons don't disappear problems; they only disappear people.

Thank you so much for listening.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Excellent. Thank you so much.

We're now going to hear for seven minutes from Véronique Picard, from Quebec Native Women Incorporated.

You have seven minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Véronique Picard Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.

My thanks to the committee for inviting my organization, and to Ms. Chartrand for her eloquent speech about the situation.

As some of you may know, Quebec Native Women Inc. is a not-for-profit organization whose goal is to defend the interests of aboriginal women and to improve their standard of living throughout Quebec, whether in urban areas or in their own communities. We do so in different ways, specifically through promoting non-violence, through good health considered from a holistic perspective, and through accessible and equitable justice.

Because of that, we are called on to work not only with women from the various nations living in the territory of Quebec, but also with front-line organizations and with larger ones, with federal and provincial public institutions, and with government representatives. Our mission is to speak on behalf of those women to institutions that affect their lives, so that we can give a voice to those women experiencing injustice.

The astounding increase in the numbers of female indigenous inmates is a major issue for us because it affects many indigenous and Inuit women in Quebec, as well as their families and their communities. Their problems are not those of one person only.

First of all, it is important to understand the context in which the prosecution and incarceration of indigenous women has evolved over time. The overrepresentation of indigenous women in the justice system and the correctional system corresponds to an intergenerational cycle of appropriation and institutionalization of indigenous people. For the most part, this runs through a common history marked by trauma and difficulty, which finds its origin in colonial policies and practices.

As an organization, our first recommendation that results from that background is to provide training and awareness activities on indigenous history and issues. This must be provided systematically and automatically, and it must be compulsory for all those in the justice system: first responders, police, lawyers, correctional officers, judges, program coordinators in institutions, probation officers and all those involved in transition houses. It not only includes yesterday's issues, it includes today's issues too.

We believe that this awareness of, and information about, the history and the issues of indigenous people will allow those working in the legal system in which this indigenous population finds itself to improve their practices. They will also play a part in changing the internal policies that affect the lives and experiences of the indigenous women in the prison facilities.

By way of information, a comment on this recommendation was made by the Office of the Correctional Investigator in its 2016-2017 annual report. It stated that the Correctional Service of Canada, CSC, does not provide its staff with guidance or training on how aboriginal social history should be considered in case management decisions.

The goal of the second recommendation is to reduce the marginalization of indigenous women in prisons and especially penitentiaries. Indigenous women are marginalized in part because of their particular social, historical and economic background. This marginalization too often brings with it an increase in risk factors, which are established according to risk assessment principles. They take the form of higher security classifications, such as medium or maximum.

The marginalization of aboriginal women and their realities are considered risks because risk factors are assessed objectively, independent of a person's sociohistorical and socioeconomic background. The realities that affect indigenous women to a greater extent automatically bring with them a higher risk level. Examples are intergenerational trauma, alcoholism, violence, abuse, lower education levels, insecurity or poverty. So indigenous women are more likely to be given a higher security classification, as the statistics available clearly show.

We believe absolutely that those labels are obstacles to healing, to rehabilitation and to the reintegration of these women. A blatant example is that healing lodges for indigenous women inmates, as provided for in section 81, accept only those with a minimum security classification, which is only a very small number.

Indigenous women with higher security classifications and who clearly have more complex or greater needs have no access to programming of that kind. It is counterproductive to isolate those women and not provide them with the support they need. Either access to programming of that kind must be made easier for women with higher security classifications or the risk that those women pose must be assessed in the light of the particular backgrounds and realities of first nations or Inuit women. The resources are available. Their quality may be open for debate, but they must be used to their full potential.

The final recommendation is to provide services and resources that are culturally sensitive and appropriate outside prison facilities. The services and resources must be permanent and regularly available, which is not the case, at least in Quebec.

For those granted conditional releases, transition houses are very poorly equipped to meet the needs of first nations or Inuit women. Those houses actually get very few financial and human resources. It is all very well to hire indigenous workers, for example, but, indigenous or not, those workers also have to be fully trained in indigenous issues.

Moreover, it is important to consider the fact that a number of indigenous women do not—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

We are almost at seven and a half minutes. I want to allow you to continue, but at the same time, hopefully, those remarks will become part of our questions. If there are continuous remarks or if you want to send the remainder of those remarks to us, we would be able to put that on the record for you as well.

What we're going to do now is start our round of questioning. In our first round, each member has seven minutes.

We're going to start with Emmanuella Lambropoulos for her seven minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Good morning.

Ms. Picard, thank you for joining us today.

I would like to get a little more information about the prison system. In your opinion, what are the existing barriers, particularly with regard to indigenous women?

Once indigenous women enter the penal system, how are they treated differently?

11:15 a.m.

Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Véronique Picard

First, I feel that indigenous women and victims are treated differently because the conditions of their lives, their life experiences, are not taken into account. Their history makes them victims of discrimination. They do not generally receive adequate and available services. Prison and the justice system are a bit like a Band-Aid that is put on without really treating the problems that need to be seen very holistically. They form a whole that comes from years and years of colonization and discrimination. Those factors, those conditions, are not considered as one whole.

For example, when a crime is committed, it is seen as a crime and not really as a part of a larger picture. When these women enter the prison system, they do not automatically have access to the services they need. They do not have access to them when they leave prison either. That is the point I am making. There are very few resources available for them, either in their communities or in urban settings. That is the situation in Quebec, at any rate. They are often just drifting. We may ask where the women that need services should be referred. We talk about a cure. You talk about rehabilitation and reintegration into society. We are talking about a cure, because the issue is all about a long-term process, which is necessary for reintegration into society.

For me, the biggest obstacle is the absence, the lack, of appropriate and available resources, both in their communities or in the cities. There are very few workers and they are overloaded. There are very few resources, services, and, of course, dollars for the communities and for the cities.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Okay.

Can you tell us if there are healing lodges in Quebec?

11:15 a.m.

Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Véronique Picard

There is one, but it is for men.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

There are none for women.

11:15 a.m.

Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Can you tell me the percentage of indigenous women in Quebec prisons?

11:15 a.m.

Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Véronique Picard

I do not have those statistics.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

So, without the statistics, could you tell me whether the number is relatively high?

11:15 a.m.

Justice Coordinator, Quebec Native Women Inc.

Véronique Picard

Because we are working with members from all the nations in Quebec, we know that this is an issue that affects our women. They deal with the issues directly. By working with those who work more at community level, we see that the women are not provided with the services they need.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC

Okay, thank you.

My next question is for Madam Chartrand.

You had mentioned that a lot of the issues stem from the lack of resources in areas where a lot of indigenous people live, for example, reserves. You were saying that we can build on strengths in indigenous communities, in order to help improve on the problem.

I was wondering if you could give us examples of what we can do in order to lessen the number of women who end up in prison.

11:20 a.m.

Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Bishop's University, As an Individual

Prof. Vicki Chartrand

Sure.

One of them is that we have to be creative in our solutions. If we just follow the correctional mandate of risk assessments and managing people's risks, we won't come up with an ability to release people into the community. I'll give you an example.

When I worked at the women's transition house, it was a transition house for women who were abused. Oftentimes, they're indigenous women coming from poverty. In fact, a lot of the women were actually coming from prison.

When you're coming from poverty, you can't afford to live in a good place. Often the women would have to stay in an area called the crack shacks and you can imagine what the crack shacks might have entailed. Of course, having worked for parole, you go in to do these community assessments, to see if they're going to be released into an environment that's suitable for their rehabilitation. They can't afford to do that. They can't afford to stay anywhere, other than an environment that's more than likely not going to be suitable for their parole.

A creative idea, for instance, is a transition house. This was on our own backs, in the sense that, we didn't have the resources for it. If we could fund these kinds of resources.... They would stay in these environments, but we would offer them a safety plan, so that if anything ever happened, they would be welcome to stay in our house for the time being—in the interim—so that we could set up something else.

We need to get creative in our solutions. That comes from the communities. It comes from the grassroots work. I'll give you another example.

Right now, I'm doing a project on the missing and murdered indigenous women. You may or may not be familiar with Gladys Radek, but she walked across Canada five times to raise awareness and to bring this issue to light. The communities have been doing this work for years. We're just picking it up.

As there has been so much criminal justice neglect in this area, they have taken on looking for the missing and murdered women themselves. Two summers ago, we went across Canada to talk about all the amazing work that they've been doing. We interviewed people like Bernadette Smith, who started the “Drag the Red” campaign. Are you familiar with this?

Drag the Red, what they did.... The police refused to search the Red River after Tina Fontaine's body was found. The police said it was ineffective and inefficient, so they started dragging the Red. They didn't find very much. I think they found only teeth, but do you know what else they did? Outside of the monofunction of policing, what they also did was they built community. They gave people hope. They brought people together. This is what we call community capacity building. These are exactly the kinds of things that we want to be seeing in indigenous communities. This is led by indigenous people.

I have lots more examples of that and of course, I'm going to be doing research on this and providing those kinds of community capacity examples.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

We're now going to move on, for our next seven minutes with Martin Shields.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses being here and being able to inform us with the wealth of knowledge they have.

Going to Ms. Chartrand, you mentioned the historical, in the sense of the change from the 1960s to the current. I know that's a huge volume, but could you succinctly say what has changed, from the 1960s until now, that has increased that percentage?

11:20 a.m.

Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Bishop's University, As an Individual

Prof. Vicki Chartrand

It's interesting. In the other part of my research I've been reading prison reports from 1837 onwards. Every year they would release annual reports. When you read the reports from 1837 up until the 1960s, you see that they actually didn't want indigenous people in their prisons, not in the federal ones, anyway. The provincial local jails were actually built on reserve—that was a control mechanism—but federal prisons were reserved for white settlers.

In the 1960s they stopped reporting on race. There are significant, fundamental changes in the way we started to administer social control. We started to build in more risk aversion, risk factors, the kinds of things that we started to see in the 1960s. We were less concerned with nationality. It seems to have been that we were more concerned with effective systems.

Of course, the human rights era was ushered in around this time. This is when we also started to see, as I said, the erosion and the receding of the Indian policies and assimilation policies. Then child welfare cases started to see more indigenous children involved. It seemed as though the prison started to take over as a new mechanism of social control over the indigenous population.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

One of the things mentioned by the other witness was indigenous staffing. Is this an area you have looked at?

11:25 a.m.

Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Bishop's University, As an Individual

Prof. Vicki Chartrand

In what way do you mean?

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

I mean staffing anywhere in the system that we're dealing with indigenous women.

11:25 a.m.

Associate Professor, Department of Sociology, Bishop's University, As an Individual

Prof. Vicki Chartrand

I think that's important, and I think bringing culture into prison is important. I think those are the kinds of things that at least alleviate some of these impacts.

The reality, from my sense of it, is that there's a culture in prisons. If anyone has ever been in a prison they understand that culture. You have to toe the line to be seen as supporting solidarity among staff members. That's really important.

You can put some of the best people in that kind of institution, but they're there to watch people. You're the keeper. This might be a bit extreme, but I rather liken it to.... Let's take the institution of slavery, for instance. You could have the nicest slave owners, who are really nice to their slaves, but the institution itself is problematic. You can put the nicest people in, but the institution's going to breed quite a lot of hostilities.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

I take it from this that you would suggest that staffing of indigenous women in institutions is not an answer, because of the control mechanism you have just outlined.