Status of Women Committee on Dec. 12th, 2017

[Lois Frank]

I think there is a lot of profiling, and there's carding in the cities, but I think it goes back to the elephant in the room, which is policing. Many people skirt around that, but policing has been an issue for first nations people.

That's why the missing and murdered women inquiry doesn't.... They deal with things like policing. I think it goes back to stereotyping of first nations, especially first nations women. That's why the inquiry is so important, because first nations women, when they were reported as missing, it was because maybe they were in the drug trade, the sex trade, things like that.

So aside from the profiling, it goes back to the basis of this, which is stereotyping.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

The issue of indigenous staff already came up, and I suspect one of the issues is getting more indigenous people to work in corrections and policing. I've heard that the way recruitment is done, it's expected that indigenous people will come to corrections or come to policing, as opposed to doing outreach within the communities.

Have you seen outreach in the communities? Do you think that would be a worthwhile endeavour, to go into the communities and try to provide supports for those who want to go in?

I see I only have 30 seconds. I'm sorry, but your response is going to have to be brief.

[Lois Frank]

That was a long question.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I know, I know. I can't help my time.

[Lois Frank]

On outreach, I think one of the important things is to provide training and that.

I think in the early days, they'd have judges or police spend a day in jail, or in court or whatever. Being on that end of it, I think is the best education. Rather than expecting some response, get in there and find out. Talk to the people in the jails, talk to the women. They're the ones who can give you the answers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to Martin Shields for seven minutes.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the witnesses being here from two leading communities of the Blackfoot Confederacy, a very strong part of our indigenous population in Canada.

Stephanie Weasel Child, you talked about the percentage of people on reserve and off reserve. With regard to the services that you provide on the Siksika, is there an extension into the urban area of Calgary?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

With our family services, child and welfare has an office in Calgary. The majority of our off-reserve population—I would say about half of that 55%—are located within the city of Calgary. However, there is no extension of having, like a Siksika court office or a Siksika probation office. It just extends to the child and family services office.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Would it be something that, if there were support, you would consider an extension off reserve to provide that service into the justice system?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

I think it would be a very, very valuable tool towards our nation members.

I was talking to the justice staff earlier this week, and they told me the story of a young girl, who I think is only 19 or 20. She got into trouble in Edmonton. She appeared in court. She had a $60 fine. She had no resources to pay the fine. She had no family to help her out, so she had to go to jail.

If we had a Siksika liaison officer working there, she could have helped her. She could have given her access to the funds or provided some sort of assistance for her. She wouldn't have had to spend a few days in jail and lose access to her child because of that.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

When you talk about the strength of families and the broad definition of families that occurs within indigenous populations, how strong is that relationship when the people are off reserve?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

There are more family members who will move into the city because they have a large family base within the city, so it will be stronger for them. But there are families where there will be a disconnect, where it's a bit more broken. They'll lose all ties with the reserve. I've done some work with Siksika membership, and we have nation members who live in South Korea, who live in Texas, who live in the United Kingdom, and they've never returned to Siksika. We have nation members living in Tacoma, Washington, who've never been to the reserve, who probably never will, so that family tie is broken there. There is a disconnect.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You talked about the number of services that are provided on reserve. Do you have other people come to see the types of services and organizations you have in Siksika?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

Other first nations, or...?

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Yes, other first nations, outsiders who may want to know what you're doing there because you're providing a variety of services.

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

There's nothing that I'm aware of, but I think in talking to the employees of justice, they did state that Siksika is in a unique position because we've had our probation office, our legal aid, and our court system for at least 15 years now. It's not a special court. It's a provincial court, and every Thursday is criminal court, and every third Wednesday is family court. It does help our nation members by having access to those services there instead of having to leave to go to Strathmore or Calgary. I know they have had first nations that have come in and done tours.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

Ms. Frank, in the sense of the relationship and the sense of urban...for Lethbridge and the Blood reserve, I've asked similar questions. Would you like to respond?

[Lois Frank]

I think it always becomes a jurisdictional issue, and I don't think it needs to be. I have clients who I interview from Saskatchewan, from all over the country, who have made their home in Alberta and are charged with various offences. As an example of being able to work within the current criminal justice system, we had a guy from Saskatchewan who was stopped outside Calgary. He was arrested for not having insurance or something. Anyway, he ended up spending the night in jail—the weekend, actually. When it came to his report, I got a lot of the information from him, made recommendations, told his story. He didn't want to hire a lawyer because he couldn't afford to so he stood up in front of the judge, spoke for himself, and represented himself, which I'm told is not the best thing to do when you're before a judge. He told his story, and he was able to spend three weekends in jail. He didn't lose his job and he was able to pay $100 over three months. Had he gone the regular route, he would have had to pay a large fine, hire a lawyer, but because he represented himself, and I think because of the work that I did on the report, the judge had a better idea of what he was facing.

In terms of not just being on reserve or off reserve, we're able to do more to help the individual.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I'm not sure if you've been to the Senate, but in front of the Senate there's a bust of an aboriginal gentleman, the first aboriginal senator, Senator Gladstone, who was from the Blood reserve.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you for that piece of history, Mr. Shields. Wonderful.

We're now going to Sheila Malcolmson for seven minutes.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both the witnesses.

This question is for Stephanie Weasel Child from the Siksika First Nation.

Can you talk a bit more about what you're seeing when indigenous women start to interact with the justice system and the incarceration system? Are they losing their children as a result? Are you seeing child apprehensions as a result of indigenous women coming in contact with the law?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

Because the women are going into the justice system and there obviously are no jails on the reserves, they can't have that constant contact and their children are going into care. I know that lately in Alberta there's been a focus on keeping the children within the family unit and getting relatives to take the children and to become temporary guardians. They are working with issues like that.

There is a high rate.... There is a nation member from Siksika who was in the federal prison in Maple Creek, I think, a female prison facility. She did lose all five of her children. Within our conversation with justice staff, it was mentioned that she was still working on getting them back, and she's been out of the corrections facility for about five years now. She still hasn't gotten all of her children back.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

We had witnesses last week who talked about the calamity that this is and the ongoing multiple generational impacts. It's terrible, and it's something that we want to talk about in our report.

You also mentioned the importance of trying to keep indigenous women out of court in the first place and what we could do around better education for lawyers and judges. I want to read out one of the calls to action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. This is number 31, which states:

We call upon the federal, provincial, and territorial governments to provide sufficient and stable funding to implement and evaluate community sanctions that will provide realistic alternatives to imprisonment for Aboriginal offenders and respond to the underlying causes of offending.

That sounds almost exactly like what you said in your recommendations. I see you nodding. That's good.

In the two years since the TRC came out with these, have you seen evidence of changes in that area by the federal or provincial government? Is there any action yet?

[Stephanie Weasel Child]

I can only speak to the Siksika first nation. With regard to our health department, I know they have been requesting to have an addictions facility on reserve for adults. We currently have one that is a youth treatment centre and doesn't service just Siksika Nation youth; we have youth from throughout Alberta who have been receiving treatment there.

I think having an adult facility would go a long way.... When a mother is looking at jail time, unless she follows certain restrictions from the court, having a facility that's residential where she can go for treatment and take her children with her—so her children can receive counselling and she can receive counselling—would keep the family unit intact. I think that would go a long way towards just.... It's like what Lois mentioned where some clients are saying, “I don't get a chance to talk, so I'm just going to get it over with and just plead guilty.” This would give them an opportunity to fight, to tell their side of the story about whatever took place, and to have them remain intact and remain on the reserve where all the services are and where their family is.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

For both witnesses, two more calls to action from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission focus more on the lawyers and judges receiving cultural competency training, I'm going to read them out. Let me know if you've seen action on this in the last two years and whether there's been positive movement.

Call to action number 27 states:

We call upon the Federation of Law Societies of Canada to ensure that lawyers receive appropriate cultural competency training, which includes the history and legacy of residential schools...[UNDRIP], Treaties and Aboriginal rights, Indigenous law, and Aboriginal-Crown relations. This will require skills-based training in intercultural competency, conflict resolution, human rights, and anti-racism.

Number 28 states:

We call upon law schools in Canada to require all law students to take a course in Aboriginal people and the law, which includes the history and legacy of residential schools...[UNDRIP], Treaties and Aboriginal rights, Indigenous law, and Aboriginal-Crown relations. This will require skills-based training in intercultural competency, conflict resolution, human rights, and antiracism.

Have you seen action on those two yet?