Evidence of meeting #85 for Status of Women in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Anne Kelly  Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Suzanne Brisebois  Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada
Angela Connidis  Director General, Crime Prevention, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Margaret Buist  Director General, Children and Families Branch, Education and Social Development Programs and Partnerships Sector, Department of Indigenous Services, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Mary-Luisa Kapelus  Director General, Strategic Policy, Planning and Information, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Department of Indigenous Services, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Kelley Blanchette  Deputy Commissioner for Women, Correctional Service of Canada
Michelle Van De Bogart  Acting Chief Operating Officer, Parole Board of Canada
Donald Meikle  Executive Director, Saskatoon Downtown Youth Centre Inc.
Lisa Lalande  Executive Lead, Not-for-Profit Research Hub, Mowat Centre
Joanne Cave  Senior Policy Associate, Not-for-Profit Research Hub, Mowat Centre
Adam Jagelewski  Director, Center for Impact Investing, MaRS Discovery District

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

Thank you.

How often are they assessed for brain injuries or fetal alcohol syndrome?

Do you have any information to tell us if we are evaluating these kinds of diseases in prison for women?

4:10 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

For FASD, we know that some of the women suffer from that. As Kelley explained, normally we do an initial assessment and then, obviously, if we find something, we can do a follow-up assessment. With our electronic health records we'll be better able to monitor.

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC

I will pass the questioning to my friend.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

It's only five minutes. Sorry—next time.

Stephanie Kusie, you're back on for five minutes.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Thank you.

I would pose the same question to Madame Brisebois as I did to Madame Kelly before.

What investments have you made in the last decade to improve programs specifically for indigenous inmates, to improve these outcomes? What improvements do you see from the Parole Board perspective?

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada

Suzanne Brisebois

The Parole Board of Canada has board members who make decisions with respect to conditional release parole. The implementation of programs directly with offenders is under the purview of the Correctional Service of Canada, but my colleague, Michelle Van De Bogart, who's the acting chief operating officer at the board, could probably speak a bit to the board's involvement with elder-assisted hearings and the various things it does to basically address the cultural aspects of decision-making.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Sure. I guess I would just consider that the Parole Board would be involved in the evaluation of results and outcomes based upon the programs. As you are sort of the participants and determinants of that, I thought you might be able to have a unique perspective in regard to what you see as working and the outcomes that are being achieved.

Maybe that's incorrect, but that's my....

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada

Suzanne Brisebois

I think, generally, if you look at the program and the effectiveness, that's.... The Correctional Service of Canada, because they implement the programs, look at accrediting the programs and assessing their validity and effectiveness.

From the board's perspective, board members will take all the information on a case file into perspective, including various programs that the offender may have participated in, either in the institution or in the community. It's part of the information that board members will assess on a case-by-case basis.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Okay.

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada

Suzanne Brisebois

The board wouldn't necessarily be involved in looking at the program integrity of the Correctional Service programs.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

But there must be some consideration of more positive results. If I were an officer, I'd be thinking, “Well, this is interesting. There's more positive retention in the sense that they're keeping parole and exiting on their deadlines” and these types of things. There would be some consideration as to why these more positive results are being achieved and obtained. I thought you might want to comment on that.

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada

Suzanne Brisebois

Again, the board views programs as very important. I think we understand that programs are an integral part of an offender's success and reintegration. We understand that.

Again, we work with the Correctional Service of Canada so that board members understand the various programs that are being offered and what's available for offenders, so that when they meet an offender at a hearing, they'll understand whether or not an offender would be in a medium-intensity program and that sort of thing. However, a board member's assessment of an offender's risk and the relevance of program participation does vary case by case.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Certainly, and I wouldn't want you to step on Madame Kelly's toes, given the separation of the programs. I was just looking for another perspective, perhaps. I appreciate that.

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Policy and Operations, Parole Board of Canada

Suzanne Brisebois

We think they're very important.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

Yes, thank you. That's a good perspective, indeed.

Madame Van De Bogart, would you comment?

4:15 p.m.

Michelle Van De Bogart Acting Chief Operating Officer, Parole Board of Canada

Ms. Kelly was speaking about the involvement in indigenous communities in section 84 releases. From a board's perspective, we have a culturally responsive format for hearings. They are elder-assisted hearings. When we last appeared, I spoke a little bit about that. It's a format that involves a ceremonial aspect as well as a risk assessment portion. Oftentimes women who are involved in section 84 preparations for release that involve their community will take part in those types of hearings, which is a way to make them comfortable. There's an elder as part of those hearings. They can bring community members in. That would be something positive that we've seen contribute to the release, from an administrative tribunal perspective, if that adds anything for you.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Stephanie Kusie Conservative Calgary Midnapore, AB

That certainly does. Thank you very much. That's the type of information I was looking for.

I'll go back to Madam Connidis in regard to the investments you've seen in the last decade that have enabled your programs to improve as a result.

4:15 p.m.

Director General, Crime Prevention, Corrections and Criminal Justice Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Angela Connidis

The community safety planning has made a difference in the communities. We had an evaluation a few years ago that showed they were very effective in building the capacity of communities to understand their safety issues.

There have been crime prevention programs that have been engaged. About 48% of the crime prevention programming has engaged indigenous people, but understand that we evaluate the programs for their effectiveness, and they're not long term.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Thank you very much. We're going to move on. We have two more questions coming through.

I'm going to switch it over now to Bernadette Jordan for her five minutes, and then Sheila Malcolmson will have five minutes to finish.

Go ahead, Bernadette.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you all very much for being here. I have one quick question, and then I'll turn it to Pam.

When you were here last time, we talked about healing lodges. I learned a lot, so I went back and did some research. I understand there's nothing available on the east coast in terms of healing lodges.

Are programs that may have some similarities or abilities available for women incarcerated on the east coast? Is there a way to offer the type of programming that is successful in parts of Canada that is not available in other parts of Canada?

4:20 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

Absolutely. There are obviously a smaller number of aboriginal women on the east coast and in the Quebec region, so there are no healing lodges. What we do have everywhere are our pathways initiatives. I didn't mention it today, but pathways initiatives, in terms of the women's facilities, normally consist of a house or unit. It has a certain number of beds where women who are interested in following more of a healing path—again, women who are interested in their culture, ceremonies, teachings, and circles—can participate in pathways. That's one thing, and that's available across the country.

The other thing is the programming we have. Aboriginal programming, which is called “circle of care”, is also available across the country.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bernadette Jordan Liberal South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Pam, do you want the rest of the time?

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

Yes, please.

I want to go back to FASD. We've heard a lot about it being undiagnosed. We've heard repeatedly that there's an issue with undiagnosed FASD, and that therefore, because it's so unique, the proper mental health services and the proper services available....

Is there a plan or should there be additional funding for that specialized diagnosis? The corrections investigator mentioned it as well.

4:20 p.m.

Senior Deputy Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada

Anne Kelly

I know that in terms of FASD, we do some triage. The last time I appeared, I know that CSC had completed assessments. If I'm not mistaken, there are seven comprehensive evaluations for offenders who have FASD. It is possible to do them, but again, an initial screening is done, and then depending on what we find, there can be follow-up as well.

Kelley may want to add to that.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON

We're looking for recommendations, so is that something that you could see being enhanced in order to improve outcomes for people who do end up in corrections?