Status of Women Committee on Feb. 8th, 2018

[Eric Michael]

I don't have an accurate figure with me, but this is definitely something we can follow up on to provide a cost breakdown for you. I wish I had it with me, but I do not.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you very much. It would be helpful for us, just for comparison's sake. We know what it is in a federal prison, so to be able to compare it would be excellent.

Thank you.

[Eric Michael]

Okay.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

At this committee we've heard a lot about the benefits of a social impact bond. If I were to describe it very quickly, it would be basically that the government gives money to an organization or an initiative on the basis that the organization will be able to provide some sort of headway forward or benefit for the money being invested. It's very results-oriented. The results are measured after the money is given. Then, when it's shown to be an effective program or effective initiative, often further money is awarded as well.

A number of initiatives have been taken across the country on the prevention side to make sure that aboriginal women are provided with the supports they need in order to live empowered lives. I'm wondering whether something like this could work within the context of a healing lodge.

[Eric Michael]

I think it's worth further investigation. I don't know enough about social impact bonds to answer very knowledgeably on it, but it's worth taking a closer look at, I would say.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

The bottom line is, I'm wondering whether it would be worthwhile in your estimation. Would it be worthwhile for an increased amount of money, let's say, to make its way to healing lodges and community initiatives rather than going further into the correctional system?

[Eric Michael]

Any additional resources would be of great benefit to healing lodges, to any indigenous organizations that have a vested interest in supporting the reintegration of indigenous offenders. I definitely see the value in that.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You talked about a work program, members of the community along with those who are in the healing lodges working together and building homes. Would there be other examples of work initiatives or community initiatives where members and those within the healing lodges are working side by side for a collective benefit?

[Eric Michael]

I would say, yes, there are. I can speak specifically about Willow Cree Healing Lodge. We have engaged the Beardy's & Okemasis Cree Nation and the surrounding community in terms of community service opportunities. Our indigenous offenders at our facility, the Nîcisânak, actually go out and provide community service support in different areas as well. These are opportunities that they have to actually give back in a positive way to the community, again, practising the traditional value system of sharing and kinship.

There are many opportunities, I believe, that the other healing lodges engage in, which are unique to their specific circumstances and the relationships they've built with their community stakeholders. So, yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Would you be able to give some specific examples of those projects?

[Eric Michael]

For instance, we've assisted with different opportunities, even helping to serve the elders in our community. We have a number of elders in the first nation there and they need help from time to time with different things. We've gone out and supported and helped those elders. We have even had an opportunity to actually provide support with a renovation that was needed somewhere, again, applying the construction trade training that they received.

These are other opportunities that we've taken advantage of as well.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's really great, and when you talk about going out and doing construction, are we talking about women being involved in those initiatives, not just men?

[Eric Michael]

I can only speak for my healing lodge and at this point it has just been our healing lodge involved in that as far as I know. Like I said, each healing lodge is pursuing other initiatives as well, based on their community partnerships and the relationships they have within their own communities.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

And your healing lodge is just men then? Or is it men and women?

[Eric Michael]

Yes, we are just for men.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay, thank you. That's an important clarification.

Can you talk a little bit about the importance of the aboriginal community being involved in the post-incarceration process, and coming onside with individuals who have been incarcerated, and helping them get back on their feet and integrated and living empowered and productive lives?

[Eric Michael]

I think the key to the success of the healing lodge is that we have a base of volunteers. We have volunteers who come to the healing lodge to support their reintegration. They come to provide citizen escort support, volunteer support. Those individuals are directly involved with bringing them out in the community during a temporary absence. They role model for them what healthy community living is all about, and then they facilitate that connection back to the community, again, through the temporary absence process. That's just one way. There are other ways as well but that's certainly one way that we see that engagement happening.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you so much.

We're now going to move on to Sheila Malcolmson for seven minutes.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to both the witnesses. I'm going to focus my questions on our UBC witness, Debra Parkes.

We're trying to track implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission recommendations, which were quite clear about indigenous access to justice. I'm looking at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission call to action number 42.

We call upon the federal, provincial, and territorial governments to commit to the recognition and implementation of Aboriginal justice systems in a manner consistent with the Treaty and Aboriginal rights of Aboriginal peoples, the Constitution Act, 1982, and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, endorsed by Canada in November 2012.

In your experience, has there been progress in those areas since 2015 when the calls to action were released?

[Prof. Debra Parkes]

Unfortunately, not much, when you look at least with respect to indigenous women and look at Corrections' initiatives or government initiatives related to indigenous justice that would address the over-incarceration of indigenous women.

Certainly, there are—and Mr. Michael spoke to it—many indigenous communities that are revitalizing their indigenous justice practices, and there are a lot of great things happening at the grassroots level.

What I'm not seeing, and maybe you'll see this from other witnesses, and I would love it if that is true.... In terms of what I've seen in my own work here in B.C. in Fraser Valley and in Manitoba, when I worked there in recent years, is that there's just very little going on in terms of transferring meaningful resources to those communities to have justice initiatives that would involve, for example, bringing people out of prison or sentencing people, particularly indigenous women, in ways that would be community-led.

I think there's much work that could be done. There are some communities that want to do that, but with very few exceptions, it's not been the focus. There's all the money in the world for Corrections, unfortunately. In my view “unfortunately”, because there's a missed opportunity there to transfer some of those resources to community.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'm elected in British Columbia, and we see this there especially, but throughout the country, indigenous organizations are transforming the child welfare system, or in many cases making great progress. We still have a Big Brother kind of government approach that's not necessarily removing the barriers to those successes and not getting out of the way.

Last week we heard testimony from the Native Women's Association of Canada, and their quite powerful quote was, “...Canada's colonial history has created a real climate and a culture of distrust where...indigenous women see that this is not a justice system that represents them.”

This theme was picked up in your paper, just published this month, I think, the discussion document called, “Toward Abolishing the Mandatory Life Sentence and Parole Ineligibility Periods for Murder”. My fantastic staff tell me that you wrote that some indigenous women would take plea bargains with the crown instead of defending their cases to the court because of their lack of trust in the justice system, and that can lead to longer, harsher sentencing.

Can you share your observations on that?

[Prof. Debra Parkes]

Yes. There is significant evidence of this now, and you saw this in the aboriginal justice inquiry report back in 1991. You've seen it in the Judge Lynn Ratushny report into the self-defence review after we had a case in the Supreme Court that changed the law of self-defence to recognize that women might be killing their abusive partners in self-defence, and that sort of thing.

You started to see that, because of the mandatory life sentence for murder, that is a very powerful tool in the hands of the prosecutors. Indigenous people are more likely—indigenous women in particular—to plead guilty to manslaughter or even to second-degree murder to take the lowest possible sentence that they can get with the plea bargain, even when they have very valid, strong defences. Professor Elizabeth Sheehy at the University of Ottawa has documented this in a number of cases.

It goes to lack of trust in the justice system. It goes to concerns about not wanting to put their kids on the stand in cases where it involves a spousal relationship and a homicide in that context. I've heard very many times from women who are incarcerated that they pleaded guilty because they didn't want to have their kids be witnesses in the trial. There are all kinds of reasons why mothers, women, have different pressures on them to plead guilty.

The evidence is pretty clear now that our mandatory sentencing regime for murder has a disproportionate impact on women in that way. I think the trust issue is part of it, and there are a number of other factors as well.

[Sheila Malcolmson, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

The report last year or two years ago from UNCEDAW, the Commission to End Discrimination Against Women, called particularly for support for indigenous women and for increased funding from Canada for civil legal aid, specifically earmarking funds for civil law legal aid in the Canada social transfer in order to ensure that women have access to adequate legal aid in all jurisdictions, particularly women victims of violence, indigenous women, and women with disabilities. Have you seen evidence of an increase in access to legal aid for these women?

[Prof. Debra Parkes]

No, in fact. There are constitutional requirements for certain levels of criminal legal aid, but what you see for women is that they often have family law matters involving custody and access issues, and they've experienced violence, so the amount of federal money that's going to legal aid has not kept pace with the need nationally. The vast majority is being borne by the provinces, and the recommendations from that committee and others have been that the federal government needs to reinvest in legal aid, including civil legal aid, which is disproportionately needed by women.

It's mostly left to the provinces. In British Columbia, for example, as you probably know, legal aid was cut deeply in 2002 by the provincial government. We haven't recovered from that. It has created a huge access-to-justice gap for women in British Columbia, and in other provinces as well. The criminal legal aid is still funded because of constitutional requirements, but there are huge issues with the lack of adequate criminal legal aid, and certainly I would just add that for prison law, there is almost no funding in those provinces for legal aid.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Ms. Parkes, thank you very much.

We are now going to move on for our next seven minutes with Bernadette Jordan.