Evidence of meeting #4 for Status of Women in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was care.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marcie Hawranik  Founder and President, Canadian Equality Consulting
Megan Walker  Executive Director, London Abused Women's Centre
Ann Decter  Director, Community Initiatives, Canadian Women's Foundation
Morna Ballantyne  Executive Director, Child Care Now
Hélène Cornellier  Coordinator of Action Plan and Communications, Association féminine d'éducation et d'action sociale
Sara Wolfe  Director, Indigenous Innovation Initiatives, Grand Challenges Canada
Vicki Saunders  Founder, SheEO
Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich  Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada
Lorraine Whitman  President, Native Women's Association of Canada
Jill Earthy  Interim Chief Executive Officer, Women's Enterprise Centre
Linda Gavsie  Senior Vice President, Universal Learning Institute
Anita Khanna  National Director, Public Policy and Government Relations, United Way Centraide Canada
Rhonda Barnet  President and Chief Operating Officer, Avit Manufacturing
Armine Yalnizyan  Economist and Atkinson Fellow on the Future of Workers, As an Individual

3:40 p.m.

Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada

Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich

That's a very good question.

I think every level of government needs to fund and give core funding to shelters, because there is going to be abuse against women no matter what happens and we need shelters to be able to support those women.

We also need to try to prevent the violence. I think that's where we need more perpetrator programs and we need more education, starting with kids when they're four years old. We also need to hold people accountable when they say things that are victim blaming or that in some ways say that a woman deserves violence and that violence is not as severe as what a woman might say.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Nelly Shin Conservative Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

Thank you. We could probably expand on all of those things, but I know we're limited for time, so I'll move on to the next question.

We don't know if there's going to be a second wave. It's very possible. I'm very happy to hear the recommendations you made to streamline some of our interventions before that happens, but you were talking about prevention.

How can we prevent in the window that we might possibly have? Hopefully, there won't be a second wave, but in case there is, there are all the complications of social distancing and even the idea of counselling through Zoom or phone calls, which takes away from that human presence that counselling offers when you're one-on-one in a room having that conversation that's part of the healing. How can things be done differently between now and a potential second wave to create a more conducive environment for things to be resolved and dealt with, and to prevent that rise of tension that happens in social isolation in family homes and in exit strategies and police intervention? How can we, as federals, assist with that before the next wave, if it happens?

3:45 p.m.

Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada

Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich

From a shelter perspective, I think it would be very important to have priority COVID-19 testing. Something we saw was that when women were able to make the call to a shelter to leave the violent situation, they had to go into two weeks' isolation within the shelter. That is very hard for a woman who is coming out of a violent situation and has to be put into isolation. If their COVID testing were a priority, they might only have to do that for a few days. That's something we would definitely recommend.

Also, in terms of prevention, for sheltersafe.ca, our website, we did institute an update of it to show email addresses as well as text messaging and web chat services that were available, because sometimes those were more secure ways in which women could reach out to shelters. I think it also has to come down to having a living wage and looking at issues of poverty and racism and all of the things I listed that might exacerbate violence, such as stress, job loss and all of that. If we look at those societal economic issues, that will help with the stress as well.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Nelly Shin Conservative Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC

This question is for Sara regarding first nations indigenous women.

What can we do better in mitigating the cycle of violence, oppression and abuse that women in that community encounter? Similarly—the same question I asked Kaitlin—what is a core root problem that we can start taking care of during COVID and beyond COVID?

3:45 p.m.

Director, Indigenous Innovation Initiatives, Grand Challenges Canada

Sara Wolfe

I think it's what Kaitlin said. There are multiple layers, and everything is interconnected. If we can build on women's economic resiliency and give them the tools to be self-sustaining, they will be able to support themselves and their families. It will mitigate the number of people who are just dependent on sheltering in place with their abusers if they have the means to support themselves. Giving them the means and empowering them to build new businesses, build new innovations and work together collaboratively—similarly to the SheEO model—is going to be healing for them as well, and will give them the confidence to move forward.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Excellent. Thank you very much, Sara.

We're now going to pass it over to Anju Dhillon.

Anju, you have the floor for six minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

I'd like to start with Ms. Geiger-Bardswich.

You spoke a little about the money that was given to shelters by our government. We gave $10 million to indigenous shelters, and $30 million for shelters and sexual assault centres.

If you have some knowledge, please let us know how this money was helpful during this pandemic. How was it used? How can it promote further help to women in such situations of domestic violence?

3:45 p.m.

Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada

Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich

Sure. Just a clarification, the $10 million given to indigenous shelters was only given to on-reserve shelters. It did not include urban indigenous shelters or Inuit shelters. The other money that we distributed did go to those shelters.

We've heard from different shelters saying that they were able to offer their staff “hero pay”. They were able to hire additional staff or relief staff when their employees had to quarantine for two weeks, either because they got back from a vacation in March, because they were sick themselves or because they had to take care of a relative.

They were able to have hotel rooms and pay for those hotel rooms. Sometimes they were given a reduced rate. Often they were not. They had to buy PPE. They had to buy masks. They sometimes had to change the way their shelter was made up in order to have larger areas where women could go, or cut off certain areas so that there was that level of social distancing. The money has been a huge help, but it doesn't replace core funding.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Okay.

There's a highly possible chance that there's going to be second outbreak. What do you see as a priority for women shelters? When it comes to intimate partner violence, what are the priorities in that second wave, if there is one?

3:50 p.m.

Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada

Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich

The priorities are around funding and around securing other means of housing women—whether that be hotel rooms, university campuses or anything else—for the increased number of calls that are coming in.

As we've been saying, we also need a national action plan to ensure that things are equitable across the country, so that a woman in P.E.I. can have the same high standard of care that a women in Alberta can have.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

Perfect. Thank you so much.

My next question is for Ms. Saunders.

You explained your business model. I found it very fascinating. You said that no business went down during the COVID peak, whereas in other places some businesses very unfortunately just finished because of COVID.

Can you tell us how you achieved this success? How can this business model be used to help other businesses?

3:50 p.m.

Founder, SheEO

Vicki Saunders

Yes. The thing that is unique about the approach we're taking is that it's all relationship based. This is part of it. We are living in a world that is so transactional. It's like, “Here's my money, so give me a return for my money”. It's all about accumulating that wealth and holding on to it as if there's not enough for everyone, which we know is crazy, because we're putting $10 million to $30 million into assault centres and we were just about to give $912 million to youth to volunteer. Oh my God, I just don't understand how we decide these things. For me, it is such a no-brainer to get people into a relationship with one another and to share the resources we have to go towards the priorities that we have on this planet.

I personally don't think we need to be investing any money on things that are not on the world's to-do list, which is our short form for the United Nations sustainable development goals, the things that create inclusive societies that take care of one another. We're just very out of balance in the masculine and feminine in the world. When we look at the kinds of businesses that women select, we see that they're selecting businesses that start at the very beginning, where there's no harassment in place, where there's flexible work and where we understand how women come to work and what they need in a different environment.

More models that are starting to design from that perspective will create much more connective tissue in society and much more resilient societies. It's more of the nurturing piece that's part of this, and we've figured out how to scale it, so it's not like it's some loosey-goosey, “oh, you know women”, la la la, it doesn't matter.... It has deep heft and scale attached to it.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anju Dhillon Liberal Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC

You also mentioned child care. You said that different women are at the table. Can you tell us specifically what solutions can resolve this issue of child care?

3:50 p.m.

Founder, SheEO

Vicki Saunders

There will be no recovery unless we figure out child care. We're not going to have an economic recovery. Women will not be able to get back to work. We're going to see a disproportionate impact on women if we don't figure out how to pay for this or solve it. We've seen women being told to keep their kids quiet when they're on a call at home. If you have one-year-olds and four-year-olds running around, what do you mean “keep them quiet”? I'm in a one-room apartment. That's not a thing.

Figuring out how we can actually use some of the relief funds to pay for the child care and have more flexibility around that for a business owner is absolutely critical, and then figuring out how we're going to safely open up our child care centres is obviously massively important in terms of any recovery.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Excellent. Thank you.

Andréanne, you now have the floor for six minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Thank you.

Our three participants are absolutely fascinating.

I will start with Ms. Geiger-Bardswich, who represents Women's Shelters Canada.

Of course, we understand the link between the pandemic and the increase in domestic violence. Moreover, isolation is worsening conditions for sex workers and increasing the risks of human trafficking. What is the link between the two?

We must not forget that some workers have not applied for certain programs, such as the CERB, because their incomes are not declared. The measures implemented during the pandemic perhaps did not help sex workers enough. A consequence may be an increased risk of human trafficking.

3:55 p.m.

Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada

Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich

We don't work specifically on human trafficking. I believe that Amnesty International Canada just put out a brief about sex workers and not having CERB accessible to them. I would recommend looking at that brief.

I would not be surprised that social isolation has made things easier for women to be trafficked. I know that a previous witness mentioned younger children being at home and being at increased risk of online luring as well, so I'm not surprised that it would have an effect.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

To what extent should organizations like yours be supported by more consistent social policies and health policies?

This also applies to housing. In fact, improving access to affordable community and social housing could have allowed people to get through the crisis more easily and may allow them to get through a second wave more easily.

3:55 p.m.

Communications and Development Manager, Women's Shelters Canada

Kaitlin Geiger-Bardswich

This would definitely help. One of the things we heard was that women were nervous about moving into shelters, into the communal space of shelters, because of COVID, because of the virus. Shelters that are already set up to be apartment-style units that are self-contained did not see that decrease in women coming to their shelters. They were at full capacity, if not more than their full capacity.

That's something we've been advocating for around the national housing strategy as well. We need safe and affordable housing for women, because if there is not that housing, it creates a bottleneck effect in shelters, where women cannot move out of shelters because there is no housing and more women can't move into shelters. It would be a huge benefit to have safe and affordable housing.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Now I will continue with Ms. Saunders, from SheEO.

We know that it is difficult to promote health when women are not really attracted by politics or when they are hesitant to take higher positions. We talk with a lot of women.

What are the main obstacles?

3:55 p.m.

Founder, SheEO

Vicki Saunders

If you mean climbing the ranks within corporate structures, that's not an area I focus on. We're interested in funding women innovators and women entrepreneurs and helping them thrive. The way we do that with SheEO is that we fund them and support them on their own terms instead of trying to “fix” them to fit into the existing systems we have. We are designing and creating new business models and new approaches to doing business that work on women's terms, and when you design from that perspective, you don't have any issues with people climbing. They're completely fine when they create their own rules.

When we get stuck into having to fit into other people's rules, like, for example, when you have to work from nine to five and you have to go pick up your kids at school but you can't do that because the rules inside business are different.... When you change those rules, women are fine. There's no need to fix women to fit into these models. We need to change our systems so that they fit with women.

3:55 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Speaking of changing the system, we know that, during the pandemic, a number of employers became aware that telework could be a useful option. Telework can also be an option for women entrepreneurs. However, I feel that clear limits would have to be set because women can really be penalized and penalize themselves in the situation.

What has the pandemic taught us about women, telework, and entrepreneurship?

Has it had an impact on the way they perceive their role in the labour market and in the economy as it recovers?

4 p.m.

Founder, SheEO

Vicki Saunders

Thank you for the question. We have a very interesting mix of young mothers and others on our team. In all of our ventures, we ask these questions all the time. There is no one answer for women. We are so diverse and different in our experiences and what we need.

Again, I think that finding ways.... For those who have support networks and elders to potentially support and take care of their children, it helps, but again, finding some way of supporting and opening up child care so that women who have children can actually get to the work and create boundaries between work and home is going to be absolutely critical. Again, I think that's a very important point for this to work.

4 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Karen Vecchio

Andréanne, you have 10 seconds. Honestly, there's probably not enough time for a full question and an answer. Do you have any final comment?

4 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Yes, I have a quick question for Sara Wolfe, from Grand Challenges Canada.

In indigenous communities, housing is a serious problem. How could the issue of housing in those communities help them after the crisis?