Status of Women Committee on April 13th, 2021

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

I'd like to call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on the Status of Women. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. The webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee.

Today the committee is resuming its study on sexual misconduct within the Canadian Armed Forces.

Let me make a few comments to our witnesses. When you are ready to speak, you can click on your microphone icon to activate your mike. All comments should be addressed through the chair. If you would like to have interpretation in the video conference, there's a button at the bottom, and you can choose English or French or what is being spoken. When you are speaking, please speak slowly and clearly for our interpreters. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Now I'd like to welcome our witness. Today we have the Canadian Forces provost marshal, Brigadier-General Simon Trudeau.

Welcome. You have five minutes to make your presentation, and you can begin right away.

[Brigadier-General Simon Trudeau, Canadian Forces Provost Marshal, Department of National Defence]

Madam Chair, good morning. My name is Brigadier-General Simon Trudeau. I am the Canadian Forces provost marshal and the commander of the Canadian Forces military police group, a position I have held since May of 2018.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today about the important role that the provost marshal plays in the Canadian Armed Forces and the work of my organization related to the very important subject you are studying in this committee.

I will provide as much information as possible, noting that I will not be able to provide comments or details on active investigations. With over 1,800 personnel, the military police group is among the 10 largest police services in Canada. We provide professional policing, security and detention services to the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces across the full spectrum of military operations in Canada and abroad.

I'm extremely proud of the women and men who serve in the military police group. These are professional police officers, and I want to take this opportunity to recognize their outstanding contributions to safeguarding our bases and wings across Canada and to supporting Canadian Armed Forces operations worldwide.

The Canadian Forces national investigation service, the CFNIS, is an independent unit under my direct command, responsible for investigating, reporting and laying charges in cases of serious service and criminal offences and sensitive matters within national defence, including complaints of sexual misconduct.

Like any police service, we adapt based on recommendations from outside experts and best practices. In response to the Deschamps report recommendations, the CFNIS established the sexual offence response teams known as SORT. Since 2016, these teams of dedicated investigators have provided subject matter expertise on conducting sexual offence investigations. SORT teams increase the ability of the CFNIS to protect and support victims of sexual misconduct by identifying, investigating and helping prosecute persons found responsible for criminal sexual offences.

The CFNIS also operates its own victim services program, which provides assistance to victims of crime by referring them to appropriate resources and ensures that victims stay informed throughout the investigative and court processes. Last year we made a decision to staff the CFNIS victim services program with full-time civilian positions to ensure that those victim services were optimized and that victims would feel safe and supported.

While I do report to the vice-chief of the defence staff for the overall management of the military police program, our investigations are carried out independently to ensure investigative integrity and due process for both the victims and the subjects. The provost marshal remains an independent actor within the military justice system. We ensure that the women and men of the military police and the CFNIS have the support and resources to fulfill their core policing mandate.

As a police chief, I want to ensure members of the committee and all DND CAF personnel that they can be confident in the independence of our process and the professional capabilities of the military police.

We are a learning organization, continuously striving to improve our processes, better support victims and serve the defence community. I want to encourage anyone who is thinking of coming forward to do so, knowing that our organization will be there to ensure due process.

I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you and welcome your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We'll begin our rounds of questioning with Ms. Sahota for six minutes.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, General, for being here and for your presentation.

You spoke about investigations. My questions are going to be in line with that.

How do you know when to begin an investigation?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

Thank you for the question.

We will begin an investigation if a complaint is made to the military police or the CFNIS. We can also become aware of an issue to be investigated as part of an ongoing investigation where you find other aspects that need to be investigated. It can also be directed by me and also by the CO of CFNIS.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Can someone make you aware of the possibility of wrongdoing without evidence, and you would look into the matter?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

If I understand your question, it's “can someone can refer an allegation or a concern to the military police?” Of course. Anybody can make a complaint or refer an allegation to the military police. At that point, it is assessed. If the matter requires investigation, we will gather the facts, analyze the evidence and lay charges as required.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

What if the possibility of wrongdoing is there, but there's no evidence at that point? Would you look into the matter?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

Any allegations or complaints referred to the military police are investigated in a comprehensive and deliberate way. It's a process. In the process of gathering facts and analyzing the evidence, there's a determination at the end of the investigative process, for example, if charges are warranted or not.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Who determines if a matter is worthy of investigation?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

For those complaints referred to us, to the military police, it's assessed by the military police if an allegation warrants a police investigation. A matter could be referred to the military police that would be better investigated or looked at by the chain of command, for example, or another process in the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

How is it determined that an investigation has been fully investigated?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

When the investigations are comprehensive—it's a process, as I explained before—all investigations and all cases go through a rigorous vetting and quality control process, and quality control is assured that way.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Can you speak a bit to the review process to evaluate the effectiveness and thoroughness of an investigation?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

Thank you for the question.

The complaint is made. It's assigned to an investigator. The investigator goes through his investigative process. There is regular interaction with the different supervisory levels. Then there is a rigorous process within the CFNIS to review every aspect of an investigation, from the investigation plan to the investigation itself, and to the determination at the end if charges are required or not.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

The media has reported that investigations under the purview of the Canadian Forces national investigation service have been “interfered” with by senior officers. Is that possible?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

The CFNIS is completely independent from the chain of command.

Also, as the provost marshal, it was clear in 2011, when the CDS amended the command and control structure of the military police and adjusted the authorities, responsibilities and accountabilities of the provost marshal. They were pretty explicit in regard to the CFPM having full command over all MPs involved in policing duties and functions. Also, as the head of the military police, the position of CFPM is independent of the chain of command.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Typically, what are the ranks of the members assigned to your team who conduct investigations?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

It will range from master corporals to sergeants to warrant officers. You can also have MWOs, and there are also some officers within the structure.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Are there protocols for what rank you assign to what investigation?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

There is no specific protocol. It depends on the investigative expertise and the experience in certain investigations, ranging in the whole gamut of investigations that the CFNIS investigates.

[Jag Sahota, Conservative, Calgary Skyview, AB]

As the Canadian Forces provost marshal, you're a brigadier-general. How does that affect your ability to investigate allegations against generals and admirals?

[BGen Simon Trudeau]

It does not, as indicated in my opening statement a few moments ago. I'm independent from the chain of command. We do investigate. It's a process. We investigate regardless of rank or status. All investigations are conducted the same way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we'll go to Ms. Dhillon for six minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Good morning, Brigadier-General.

I'm going to start with a question about 2017. The Canadian Forces national investigation service conducted a review of sexual assault cases concluded as “unfounded” between 2010 and 2016. Can you please tell us what led to this internal review?