Status of Women Committee on June 17th, 2021

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Yes, I'm starting. Thank you, Madam Chair.

As we know, our Muslim community has not even had a chance to recover from the hateful act of terror in London, Ontario. Last week, a Muslim sister wearing her hijab was assaulted in Edmonton. Earlier this week, Baitul Hadi Mosque in Edmonton was vandalized. All these horrible incidents have no place in Canada, and my heart breaks for all victims of these recent attacks. I know that many Canadians are feeling the same.

To all our witnesses today, we know that our marginalized and racialized communities are looking for allies in government, and they are looking for a solution. You shouldn't feel unsafe on the streets in Canada if you are wearing a turban, kippah, hijab, indigenous regalia or any other religious cultural symbol. We need to stand up to reject racism and terror and work together.

The goal of this study in our committee is to find those solutions.

My question is for Ms. Mahdi. Anyone else who wants to can contribute.

I know that your organization advocates for peace, tolerance, love and understanding among followers of different faiths. It is important to understand the root causes of hate. What are some of the differences in experiences with hate crimes when it comes to socio-economic status? You talked about schoolkids. How can we empower them, educate them and give them awareness so that they are empowered to speak up?

[Saadia Mahdi]

I think education is key. Spreading information is key, removing myths and misconceptions. As you mentioned, our community holds a lot of public events in which we try to address those misconceptions and try to remove those barriers. However, again, that would be on our platform. It needs to be done on a larger platform. Seeing the House of Commons committee doing this great work is actually very encouraging to us, because definitely you can reach a larger audience within the Canadian community.

It's very important that we understand that the hate comes from a place of ignorance. Unfortunately, going back to the online web pages, Facebook groups or whatever, they're free to express those horrific thoughts, and that's where the radicalization happens. The London, Ontario, attacker being 19 or 20 years old shows that young minds are the ones being influenced the most. Perhaps they have never met a Muslim and haven't actually asked those questions, like, “Oh, I heard this; could you clear it up for me?”

Also, going back to the Quebec mosque shooting, yes, it was addressed. Prime Minister Trudeau addressed it. It was in the media. However, what happened after that? It fell back on the communities to step up their security. We were very scared to go back to the mosque after that, thinking, is that going to happen when our children are attending prayer services? It can't be something that just dies down because the media coverage has died down. It has to be a continuous actual increase in the good, so that we can decrease the bad.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Hasan.

[Samya Hasan]

Very quickly, there's one thing I want to point out in terms of the burden on the communities to eradicate the misconceptions. The community feels that it is their responsibility to eradicate those myths, misconceptions and stereotypes, and I really feel that's unfair. We were not the ones who created those misconceptions in the first place, so why should we be responsible for telling people that we're not terrorists? It should come from the top down. It should really come from a campaign from the federal government to show that our communities are welcoming, that we are nice people and we are good citizens of this country. That burden shouldn't fall on the communities themselves.

The other thing I want to point out very quickly is in terms of the previous question on cyber-hate and hate crime reporting. One project we're doing here at CASSA is to work with four different police units across Ontario to see how their hate crime reporting system works at present, where the gaps exist, how the community envisions those programs to be and what would be an accessible way for communities to report hate crimes.

As we know, two-thirds of hate crimes across the country are unreported. How do we change that? We're a small organization. We can only do so much and work with certain police services across the province. Is there a way for the federal government to take that initiative to work with police units across the country to have a streamlined approach for people to report hate crimes? The second part of it is public education about how to report on hate crimes.

We had an experience a couple of weeks ago where we had an event. There were two people who Zoom-bombed the event with profanities against the speakers. One of them was a South Asian woman. We had a very difficult time trying to find out how to report that to the police. It was a hate incident. It was hate speech, but we were pushed from one department to another department, from one police unit to another police unit. As an organization, we have the resources to assign staff to do that, but as individuals, people don't have the time or the energy to invest hours on end in trying to report the crime, so it's left unreported.

We're really working with the police to see how we can make this system more community friendly and accessible.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we'll go to Madam Larouche for two and a half minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for their testimony.

I'd like to come back to online hate, of which they spoke. In Quebec, people are talking a lot about it right now. I'd also like to underscore the situation of women in politics. When we talk about education or changing cultures, we often say we need a diversity of faces in politics as well. Some women will not be running in the next municipal campaign in Quebec because they have been victims of online hate. Could any of the witnesses speak to the importance of this legislation, which is overdue at the federal level?

Recently the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security discussed radicalization. Here at the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, we found that people were spending more time on the Internet during the pandemic.

The witnesses mentioned that people could write anything and everything on social media. I'd like to hear their thoughts about the connection between this time spent online and the importance of legislating on the issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Mahdi.

[Saadia Mahdi]

Thank you for the question.

As I mentioned earlier, representation matters. As a Muslim woman, when I see the wonderful MPs who are now serving Canada who are women of colour, who are Muslims, who wear a hijab, I really feel good about our country and our government. However, when we hear they're being threatened, they're being attacked and they are having to leave their posts, it doesn't bode well for encouraging others to follow in their footsteps. If we see that they are being protected, that those attacks are being taken seriously and the perpetrators are being removed, then we will see more people stepping into those leadership roles and wanting to represent their communities. When we see greater representation among our politicians, we will automatically see a very different face on the leadership of this community.

Already we've done so well, but it needs to be addressed in the future. We can definitely encourage our younger generation to step up and fill those roles.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

We will have a quick response from Ms. Hasan.

[Samya Hasan]

Thank you for that question.

One of the really disturbing statistics I have come across is that there are more than 200 white supremacist, extreme right-wing groups in action right now in Canada. The federal government, as mentioned in the previous panel, has the power to dismantle and disband them. A lot of the online hate comes from those extreme right-wing, white supremacist groups, which are just running freely right now. There needs to be strong action to disband all of those groups.

I assure you, once we do that, there will be a lot less online hate, especially targeting women, racialized women and Muslim women. Online we know that racialized women and Muslim women face a disproportionate amount of cyber-bullying and cyber-hate. Women in general face a lot of hate online.

The answer is in your hands, as the federal government, to disband those 200-plus white supremacist, extreme right-wing groups.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Now we go to Ms. Mathyssen for two and a half minutes.

[Lindsay Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I want to return to the discussion on the hate crime units, with policing, that reporting system. I absolutely agree with you, Ms. Hasan, about that public education piece that we don't know. I think part of that, too, comes in with respect to how to report it, but it's also that education around why it's so important to report it. The NDP has also been calling for and wants to move forward on expanding that.

Many smaller cities across Canada, even medium-sized cities and municipalities, don't have anything like a hate crime unit. Could you talk about the importance of the federal government ensuring police units across the country have the funding for specific hate crime units? That's for both witnesses.

[Samya Hasan]

I think it's very important. We know that a hate crime is not just something that happens in large cities. We've seen on social media that people who have moved into smaller rural towns during the pandemic have faced a lot of hate and racism in those communities. I stand by having a streamlined approach from the federal government to support police units to establish hate crime units across the country and to provide those resources that are necessary.

The other important thing is that having a hate crime unit on its own is not enough. We've had police units that have had hate crime units, but the staff that were responsible for that unit were not trained at all on how to handle complaints. It is a very sensitive job to be talking to people who have faced violence in that way, so training is a huge component as well. It's not just resourcing and providing funds for those police units to create hate crime units, but also having a centralized training system for that hate crime staff to take in reports and be sensitive to issues around the different forms of hate that people experience.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

With the remaining time, I think we have time for one question from Ms. Shin and one question from Mrs. Zahid.

Ms. Shin.

[Nelly Shin, Conservative, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you so much.

First, I would like to express my sadness with the recent tragic deaths of the four Muslim family members in London. I so appreciate all the witnesses who are here, in the earlier panel and in this current one, for making time to speak with us today.

I know that with the rise of racism in general, and anti-Asian hate crimes specifically in my part of Canada in the greater Vancouver area, one thing that keeps coming up, and you've touched on this a little bit already [Technical difficulty—Editor] charge anyone because you don't have a witness or it wasn't an actual physical form of assault that can be charged. A lot of times victims walk away feeling more angry, very afraid, powerless and that the world is not safe and no one can really do anything about it.

You mentioned the idea of the hate crime unit. Could you provide more details of what kinds of things can be done to help those who are walking away without any justice at that moment?

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Hasan.

[Samya Hasan]

After talking to different police units in the work that we are doing, one of the biggest barriers in charging someone with a hate crime is the requirement of having Attorney General consent for that to be considered a hate crime. We've asked for some transparency around what is considered a hate crime and what is given Attorney General consent and what is not given Attorney General consent.

As the Anti-Hate Community Leaders Group, we have not advocated for removing that requirement to have Attorney General consent, but to have some more transparency and an annual reporting mechanism of what has been given consent and what has not, so the community can have a better understanding of how that system works. When we have transparency around something, better and consistent principles will be applied to what is considered a hate crime and what is not.

I totally hear you, MP Shin, that there are people who go in to report a hate crime and they are told that, unfortunately, they are not able to consider [Technical difficulty—Editor] right now for any crime to be considered a hate crime.

It's looking back at some of those gaps and those policies to see how we can eliminate some of those gaps and how to make the process more transparent. Community groups like CASSA can then [Technical difficulty—Editor] and educate the community on what they need to do to report hate crimes and what factors they need to fulfill before they go to the police and report hate crimes.

The other thing that was discussed this morning was that third party reporting is so important. As we know, a lot of communities don't have a lot of trust in law enforcement. The Muslim community, especially with Muslim women, are afraid of being shamed and victim-blamed. That is a real thing. We need to really see how we can improve that entire system of reporting, so that communities have better trust in law enforcement when they report hate crimes. If they're not comfortable reporting it to law enforcement, there should be third party mechanisms, like organizations that are doing close work with the community already.

We work with a lot of organizations. Given some resources, they would be more than happy to take on that role to take hate incident reports from their communities because they already have the trust from the community. They would take that and then they would funnel that to the police.

I think a lot of measures can be done to support that process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

The final question goes to Ms. Sahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thanks to both the witnesses for their important testimony and the recommendations they have given in this important study.

Thank you, Ms. Hasan. We have worked closely in the Scarborough community. All the work you are doing in Scarborough to break down the walls of hatred is very much appreciated.

My question is for both of you.

All members of the Muslim community have been and can be victims of hate crimes, but women are particularly vulnerable. We are more likely to wear traditional clothing, such as hijabs or our traditional dresses, and therefore, we are more visible targets. I myself was a victim of hate when I started wearing a hijab. With my being the first woman to wear a hijab and speak from the floor of the House of Commons, I think it gives a lot of assurance to our young girls and women who would like to see themselves enter politics wearing a hijab.

No woman or girl should be made afraid to wear what she chooses to wear. What a woman or girl chooses to wear should be her choice and hers alone. It was very sad to talk to a young university student the other day when she told me that she feels scared to stand on a platform of a subway station when wearing a hijab. She stands in a corner in fear that maybe someone could push her or something.

Could you please briefly share what your experiences as a Muslim woman have been? What can we do today, as leaders in our respective communities, to assure all women and girls that they are safe wearing a hijab, and to give them the assurance that wearing a hijab would not stop them from achieving their dreams in whatever fields of life? Many women think that wearing a hijab might be a barrier to getting a good job or entering politics.

I would like to hear your perspective on that issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

Ms. Hasan.

[Samya Hasan]

I'll be very quick so I can give Saadia some time to speak as well.

I think what Amira said before she left would send a huge signal to the Muslim community that the federal government is there to support Muslims and hijab-wearing women. Condemn Bill 21. Honestly, that bill has really made Muslim women think they are not part of this country, especially those who live in Quebec, that they're not recognized citizens of this country, that they're not contributing members of this country. They have been made to feel that way.

The strongest signal you can send to Muslim girls who may or may not want to wear a hijab or a niqab is that you will not stand idle and you will not stand silent while a province in our own country passes legislation that violates their constitutional rights. Condemning Bill 21 would be a very, very strong signal.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

The final comment goes to Ms. Mahdi.

[Saadia Mahdi]

I agree completely with what Ms. Hasan has just said.

It was very hurtful to see that a province in Canada could actually successfully pass a bill that was so racist and Islamophobic, and hurtful to all people who wear religious clothing or symbols. Definitely, if the federal government said that this is unconstitutional and it can't be done, that would be a great step. It would also prevent people who felt validated in their hateful opinions by the passing of that bill if it would say that no, Canada's not going to tolerate it.

In going back to MP Zahid, it warms my heart when I see a fellow hijab-wearing woman in your position. It is very inspiring. When I was young, it wasn't something that I actually ever thought possible. We were okay with the old white men being in charge of the government. Slowly we saw more representation from women, and then slowly, women of colour, and now Muslim women. You guys really are trailblazers. We wish you well. We're with you.

Definitely, when our kids see representation, even something small, like if they see a commercial on TV and there's a woman wearing a hijab, for whatever reason, it gives them such pleasure to see that we are being represented. That's something we didn't have when I was growing up. It is a great responsibility on your shoulders, but we are with you and we are very thankful that you have chosen this line of work. Wherever these hateful things creep up, it is now your responsibility to make sure that they are shot back down and they're not allowed to fester and grow.

[The Chair, Conservative, Marilyn Gladu]

That was very well said.

I want to thank all of our witnesses today. This is a great study and we will continue. There's lots more to talk about.

For the committee members, on Tuesday we'll discuss committee business and the work plan for this important report. At this point, is it the will of the committee to adjourn?

I'm seeing lots of nods.

Then I shall see you on Tuesday. Have a great day.