Status of Women Committee on April 5th, 2022

[Dr. Peter Jaffe]

Children need access to trauma counselling, and they're not getting very much. There's no universal program across Canada. I work with children who were at the scene of a domestic homicide, and it's fate or luck, depending on where they were and the follow-up with victim services, whether they get any kind of appropriate counselling. That would be a priority.

To me, if you're a child living with domestic violence, you're at risk—not only to repeat the cycle in the future, but also for serious emotional, behavioural and cognitive problems. Those children should be getting help right away.

I think every community or every region needs to have access to specialized resources for children who are exposed to domestic violence. They're very much at risk. Whether they're infants or teenagers, we know from the research that children are impacted across the different stages of development, and we continue to deny and minimize that. It should be a standard form of what we deal with in health care. Family doctors should be asking that question as part of their regular work with families, and pediatricians should be asking that question. I think we need to build it into an action plan.

We also need awareness. Children are ignored, and it makes me sad to see that in 2022, repeatedly, we still have to raise this issue.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

I couldn't agree more. I want to shout that out from the rooftops.

I think what you said is really interesting, because some kids maybe haven't been exposed to extreme trauma. It's that grey area, where we look at defining coercive control or being in a home that you didn't really know is not healthy. Kids don't know what they don't know because it's just what they're exposed to.

Do you think it's going to be possible to clearly define coercive control so we can put it into policy and law? It can get into a grey area, especially where, as many people have seen and as we've seen throughout this study, victims will say, “Well, I don't have it that bad. I'm not a victim of abuse. It's not me.” Consequently, the children will learn rationalizing the irrational behaviour as well.

Do you think we can clearly define coercive control for the law?

[Dr. Peter Jaffe]

Yes, I think we could do a better job. I do acknowledge that it's going to be challenging. I like what we have in the Divorce Act. Now it's a question of just educating people about what it means. I think we have to define it.

For 20 years, we've had something called a power and control wheel. It looks at different elements of abuse. Many police officers, victim services, shelters and counsellors understand it. I just think we have to do a lot more to educate people what it looks like when somebody has so much control and domination over somebody else that it impacts their freedom and access to friends, family and health care. I think it's possible.

Again, each victim is going to have to find their own way to get help and also help for themselves. One example I use—and I do think the front line is important—is that we don't talk about our teachers. In our school board, we've done education with elementary and secondary teachers to be aware of the impact of domestic violence on children and what the warning signs are. Teachers may be the first line of defence to talk to children about the issues and get help, not only within the school district, but also within the community.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's so great.

Just to one more point, when we look at public education around what people deem as normal, as we try to change what we thought was normal behaviour.... It was “No, it's normal for him to control”—or women. This doesn't always happen just to women, but that he controls all the money or she controls all the money, those things were normalized.

What do you think is the most effective thing to un-normalize what was normalized for so many decades?

[Dr. Peter Jaffe]

We have to give examples. I think we have to find every avenue possible, whether it's through public service announcements or whether it's through educating counsellors. I think ultimately it's to teenagers in high schools and in dating relationships, making sure they understand what healthy relationships look like and what coercive control looks like.

It has to be universal. It's not just for people living with violence. It's for their friends, neighbours and peer groups.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

I am now going to pass it over to Pam Damoff.

Pam, you have five minutes.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Thanks so much, Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses. Five minutes is such a short amount of time.

My first question is actually for Safe Centre of Peel.

I recently met with SafePet Ontario. I wonder if you could talk about the role that the inability to find a safe place for companion animals plays in women not being able to leave abusive relationships. The government provided the humane society of Canada funding to work with shelters, but sometimes making a shelter pet-friendly isn't the answer. I wonder if you're doing any of that at your organization.

They talked about educating the police, about having people go to hotels or finding safe foster homes for the animals, so I wonder if you could just talk about that briefly.

[Shelina Jeshani]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, we certainly have seen women who find themselves in circumstances where their pets are being threatened. First, we see that the violence happens with pets in order to control her further and to create that toxic environment in the home. We certainly work with her around what the possible options are. We do not, as yet, have a dedicated pathway to a humane society to get pets out and taken care of, but we certainly work with her around what her barriers and challenges may be and how we can best support her to navigate that.

Inspector Hewison, is there anything you'd like to add to that?

[Lisa Hewison]

No, I think you covered it all.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

You want to have a conversation about it because it's a barrier to leaving before they are even able to leave the home.

I come from Halton Region and we have one of the highest rates of human trafficking, as I know Peel does as well. We did, in our plan to combat human trafficking, provide increased resources and capacity to police services, but I'm just wondering if you could talk about the connection between intimate partner violence and human trafficking, and any recommendations on what more the government could do to support you at Peel police.

[Lisa Hewison]

I think Shelina has a comment on that.

Are you going to talk about the hub? I thought so.

I'll let Shelina answer that one.

[Shelina Jeshani]

Okay, and then I'll pass it over to you, Lisa.

Thank you, again, for that question.

Absolutely, many times we see women coming to the Safe Centre exhibiting signs of IPV and as we work with her and dig in further, we actually do see signs of human trafficking, so we begin to explore that.

All of our partners are trained in that area as well, so they know what they're looking for, but we're very blessed to have a regional strategy in our community, where we have just opened our first human trafficking hub, a collaborative hub to respond to the symptoms of survivors of human trafficking, where we work, again, closely with victim services, Elizabeth Fry, Our Place Peel, and Peel Regional Police in order to really be able to respond and get the trauma support that victims and survivors need.

Certainly our colleagues at Peel Regional Police have done a tremendous job in leading a community-wide awareness-building strategy around education and training the community so that parents, teachers and caregivers start to see the signs and are able to intervene early.

Lisa, go ahead.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

I have only a minute.

[Lisa Hewison]

I'll build upon that. In addition to doing the prevention education in the community, in Peel, something we're embarking on within the next few weeks is providing training to all frontline officers with Timea Nagy to get those indicators so they can recognize signs, get to supporting those women and get them the proper supports.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

If you have any other recommendations for the federal government, please feel free to send them to us in writing, because we don't have a lot of time when we have this many witnesses.

Dr. Jaffe, you talked about the importance of judicial education and the changes in the Divorce Act. I've been working with Jennifer Kagan to get a private member's bill passed, called Keira's law.

Can you comment on the importance of judicial education around domestic violence and coercive control, in about 10 seconds?

[Dr. Peter Jaffe]

Thank you for your leadership on that issue and for picking up the torch from Jennifer Kagan.

I think judicial education is essential. As I said, in 2022, you can't be a family court judge and not understand family violence and coercive control, period.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

We're now going to pass it over for two and a half minutes to Andréanne. You have the floor.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

To conclude this last round, I have some questions for Ms. Tanguay, the director of La Gîtée.

A little thing I saw on your website caught my attention: a test to see whether a spouse is controlling. The test included several types of controlling conduct, including economic and social control.

Does your organization accommodate many victims of coercive violence and coercive conduct? How useful can this test be? What are you doing to help these women once they have taken the test?

[Chantal Tanguay, Director, La Gîtée Inc.]

The test allows the woman to identify spousal violence for herself. Often, women are experiencing this violence but don't know what it is. We have to note that people often associate spousal violence with beating or physical violence. So the test allows women to recognize that they have suffered spousal violence. This often comes as a big shock to them. In reality, that is part of the dynamic of spousal violence that makes the woman feel responsible for the violence. So it can take a woman a lot of time to realize that the problem is not her.

The women we meet in the shelters always tell us they are almost embarrassed to call what they are experiencing violence when what it is, is little things here and there. But that is how the dynamic of spousal violence works. It is made up of a collection of little things that, taken separately, look like nothing, but once you put them together, they amount to coercive control. It's when you consider the entire history of the violence that you are able to see that dynamic.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

It's a very subtle dynamic, as you say, one that does not always leap to the eye, but that is always harmful.

I just have a few seconds left to thank all the guests in this group once again and mention one last thing. Last week, I offered my condolences in response to the femicide in the community of Lebel-sur-Quévillon. In fact, another femicide happened on the same day, this time in the community of Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts. I want to offer my condolences for that death as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

Thank you very much.

We're now going to pass it over to Leah Gazan.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

My question, again, is for the deputy grand chief.

One of the things I called for this time around with my private member's bill, Bill C-223, is to implement a guaranteed livable basic income. That was in response to call for justice 4.5 of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls.

Why is that call for justice so critical?

[Deputy Grand Chief Anna Betty Achneepineskum]

Aside from that particular call, other calls have fallen on deaf ears. It's sometimes very discouraging when we continue to try to raise our voice and many times it falls on deaf ears.

Julie, could you continue answering that particular question, please? I have to plug in my computer.

[Julie McGregor]

Thank you, Deputy Grand Chief.

In terms of intimate partner violence and violence against indigenous women, we know that the root causes are so much bigger than just finding programs that work and so forth. It really has to do with poverty and the lack of housing, the lack of infrastructure, and the lack of clean drinking water that our people have experienced for decades.

There's a lack of housing and there's inadequate infrastructure. Our families and our people have lived in poverty for so long. They have had no way of ensuring safety in our communities. That all plays into that factor of ensuring that people have guaranteed livable income and that our families, and our women especially, are lifted out of poverty and empowered in terms of regaining their roles within their communities.

It's all interconnected. I'm sure everyone knows that. The issues are larger than just looking at programming for women who are experiencing violence. It's much larger and it's interconnected. Obviously, it's related to colonialism and the systemic violence that our people experience.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Conservative, Karen Vecchio]

On behalf of everyone at the status of women committee, I would like to thank all four groups for coming out today. This is the end of our study, so this panel was the last one. We'll begin drafting this report in the near future.

Thank you so much for being a part of this meeting today and for finishing it off for us.

Members, just as a reminder, we will have committee business starting on Friday to discuss a variety of different things as we move forward.

I'd like to say thank you to all of you. Let's get some good work done on behalf of all the women across Canada.

Thanks very much, everybody.

I adjourn this meeting.